casual obsever wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Have you gone crazy? At least you were mildly logical before and didn't resort to outright lies.
You must be new here.
Agreed
Coevett wrote:
Where is the proof that there is a 'massive doping problem in the rest of the world'?
You must be new to the sport.[/quote]
Nope, I've been following since the late 70's when I was a kid, although admittedly my interest did wane from the early 90s when North Africans were suddenly able to run a second a lap faster than the likes of Coe with the same training.
You're entitled to your view that there is a massive doping problem in the entire world of athletics, I disagree, or at least I believe the proof coming out of Kenya - with endless doping failures despite utterly corrupt and abysmal testing standards - is far greater than any existing proof that countries like the USA and UK are equally doped up, at least as far as middle and long distance running concerned.
I've also given arguments as to why I think doping isn't and hasn't been such a problem elsewhere. For example, the fact that middle-distance running declined in the 90's in the UK (and Europe save for 'dirty triangle' member Spain) is circumstantial evidence that most European countries weren't doping themselves silly with EPO, and therefore also likely weren't doping themselves with steroids in the 80s. I think you (unless I'm mistaken) have made the claim that the reason UK middle-distance declined was because of stricter steroid testing. Fair enough, but it seems dubious to me that the likes of Coe, Ovett, and Cram would have roided up no problem when they could, but the very talented guys who came after them like Curtis Robb, David Sharpe, Anthony Whiteman etc didn't appear to use EPO.
Dieter Baumann is also evidence that there was less doping in Europe in the 90's than Africa. The one European who could compete with the Epiopians to an extent gets popped.
You also often reference two surveys that questioned athletes at a global championships and at an African championships as evidence that doping is the norm. The fact that the surveys found that athletes admitting to doping was significantly greater at the African championships suggests to me that doping is very much significantly higher in Africa.
I think it's widely agreed here that you have to a bit stupid as an athlete to get caught taking EPO unless you are subjected to a truly random and unannounced test. We know that, unlike in Europe and the USA, Africans aren't subjected to unannounced tests. Hence it's a bit silly to believe that Kenyans do not dope more when there is far less risk for them to do so and far greater motivation to dope in terms of relative financial rewards. The fact that they are getting caught despite this only confirms it even further.
Having said that, I do confess that I because of my time on this forum, I am more inclined to believe that things are murkier than I previously would have suspected. Not so much that you and others have convinced me (to some extent you have, and more so Subway has) but rather British athletes like 'ex-runner' who has indirectly admitted to doping, even if he was only a fringe elite, and the guy who claims to be a regional UK coach 'spade detector' who is obviously doping his athletes given his rampant and unashamed doping apologism here.