Ultra discussion: thoughts on the Georgia Death Race controversy?

I haven't had time to analyze the difference between the two trails so I won't make a judgement.

The 1.8 seconds per 10 ft elevation gain/loss is pretty accurate though it will increase as pace slows. I used a similar analysis to predict the winning time within 1 second for the men at World XC championships.

When building new trail, it isn't uncommon to (hide) the trail on both ends until it is ready and then the ends are done last and the trail is marked and opened. Until the trail is officially marked, it isn't uncommon to keep the flagging up. That flagging may have been similar to what the race used.

420FARTMASTER69 wrote:

I didn't look at all the strava.

Are you saying that 150 of 156 finishers posted to strava?

I feel bad for the RD if the markings were added by another party. But there's hardly a time difference between the two like rojo said. If poorly marked, both routes should count, with no time penalty.[/quote]

I'm saying 150 of the people who ran the race uploaded to strava. That's right about half the starting field, only 156 finished.

Probably a 5 minute difference in time and over 600 feet of elevation gain of difference. Granted that really isn't a lot over the course of 70+ mile race but the fact that the lead runner was passed and wasn't aware until later is just wrong, it'd take some serious mental gymnastics to argue that isn't wrong. That completely changes the outcome of the race. The ladies that passed her didn't have to make a move to pass other than cut the course, that should never be ok in a race. This doesn't give the lead lady a chance to cover the move and we won't know if she could have covered it.

Like I said before Ultra running is a subjective sport where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.[/quote]

Then you missed the part in this thread saying something like 17 of 20 of the first runners took the "wrong" way before race organizers hurried down to fix the flagging after that. That's why so many run the "correct" way.

I think the best way is just to let the actual finishing order stand. The time difference was small 0, 2, 5 minutes max according to people's estimates here. No one tried to cheat, they were following actual flagging, and the lead people could only decide by guessing. One way, you are penalizing people who guessed wrong, including 17 of the first 20 runners to go through the intersection, the other, oh, one person got passed 17 miles into a 70 mile race without noticing it happen, and might have responded differently. Yes that part is not fair, but posting a 1 hour penalty on people that guessed wrong is even less fair.

clearly shawn webber is commenting on this thread

shawn, you got smoked the last 10 miles and if Finn hadn't dropped at 54 you would have been 5th. please don't come on here pretending you earned a shot at WS via performance. pathetic whiner.

ronald mexico, esq wrote:

clearly shawn webber is commenting on this thread

shawn, you got smoked the last 10 miles and if Finn hadn't dropped at 54 you would have been 5th. please don't come on here pretending you earned a shot at WS via performance. pathetic whiner.

He got double chicked too. Maybe the Golden tickets for men should only apply for those in front of Golden Ticket women? (proposed rule change anyway)

They ran the wrong course. They are fortunate that they didn't get DQ'd. The only right thing to do is backtrack and run the course from where the runner screwed up. That's widely accepted and well known in trail running. Period.

Getting lost is part of trail running and if you can't suck it up and do it right then stick to the track. If it was easy then it would be called track. They screwed up and must accept the consequences that the race director doles out. If you don't like that then speak with your money and don't run that race.

This is true: they should have returned to the point where they went off course. Everything else is debatable.

GDR needs to write their rules in a more detailed manner, so people can know in advance what's what.

To the guy posting under all the different names crapping on the 4th place finisher promoted to 3rd -- get a life, loser.

zzzz wrote:

ronald mexico, esq wrote:

clearly shawn webber is commenting on this thread

shawn, you got smoked the last 10 miles and if Finn hadn't dropped at 54 you would have been 5th. please don't come on here pretending you earned a shot at WS via performance. pathetic whiner.

He got double chicked too. Maybe the Golden tickets for men should only apply for those in front of Golden Ticket women? (proposed rule change anyway)

Hey I guess he would have won a golden ticket if he suited up in the women’s race - well not really, only after applying the time penalty.

Mizuno fanboy wrote:

This is true: they should have returned to the point where they went off course. Everything else is debatable.

How can you return to the point where you went off course, when you followed markings which looked like you were on the course?

In a race you have to assume that race markings are the right ones.

AJW (Andy Jones Wilkins) weighs in with his thoughts.

https://www.irunfar.com/2019/04/my-thoughts-on-the-2019-georgia-death-race-controversy.html

You prove how dumb you are. Taking the wrong way, aided the runners immensely. Yes they ran a longer distance, but they omitted the HARDEST part of the course. You jump into these threads, having no knowledge and boss-hog your way to an opinion.

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

AJW (Andy Jones Wilkins) weighs in with his thoughts.

https://www.irunfar.com/2019/04/my-thoughts-on-the-2019-georgia-death-race-controversy.html

He was a volunteer and not a runner. His opinion would carry more weight if he was one of the runners who was affected by the poor course markings and the time penalty. Also, there is no way an hour time penalty is in line with the loss of 400 ft of climbing, especially considering they added distance. Maybe a 15 minute penalty, but 1 hour is ridiculous.

Dude, I Ran the race as well... the hardest part?

Give me a break. We're talking about 400ft of hills.. you act like this was a 5000ft climb. It was negligible at best.. 5-10 minutes at most.

wow - RD is threatening people on FB now (see irunfar post comments) - "mike I’ll prob punch that beard off your face at Hyner just saying." What a class act that is associated with WS100.

wowza RD wrote:

wow - RD is threatening people on FB now (see irunfar post comments) - "mike I’ll prob punch that beard off your face at Hyner just saying." What a class act that is associated with WS100.

Nothing beats an ultra runner throw down! so much power.

Ultra Runnerz wrote:

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

AJW (Andy Jones Wilkins) weighs in with his thoughts.

https://www.irunfar.com/2019/04/my-thoughts-on-the-2019-georgia-death-race-controversy.html

He was a volunteer and not a runner. His opinion would carry more weight if he was one of the runners who was affected by the poor course markings and the time penalty. Also, there is no way an hour time penalty is in line with the loss of 400 ft of climbing, especially considering they added distance. Maybe a 15 minute penalty, but 1 hour is ridiculous.

Also hard to give this much weight when they are buddies. Sean/RD was wearing a shirt with AJW's face on it for F's sake. Maybe that would have been mentioned in the article that is meant to be a neutral approval of the decision.... Would also love to see if AJW will endorse Sean's decision to attack people on FB as a reasonable response in a difficult situation.

Met AJW once, a super nice guy. Perhaps he’s stuck in the middle here, with a local race that he naturally hopes will continue. My local races have their faults & I have been caught in the middle as a volunteer.

I want an AJW shirt, too!

Did you guys know that Shaun the RD for GR ran one of his own races while directing it last week and got 2nd place?

And when people complained about it he banned them from his races and Facebook. Shows you what kind of tool he is!

I hope WS pulls his Golden Tickets.

Doubleplay wrote:

Did you guys know that Shaun the RD for GR ran one of his own races while directing it last week and got 2nd place?

And when people complained about it he banned them from his races and Facebook. Shows you what kind of tool he is!

I hope WS pulls his Golden Tickets.

Why did people complain? is this also the race where he was going to punch the beard off one of the runners?