The real victims are the people who live in shithole countries.
The real victims are the people who live in shithole countries.
It is true that few if any junior runners were widely known other than Ingebrigtsen. I'd completely welcome East African commentators (tough to get Haile, but he'd be great) to shed light on the backstories of the runners. It's hard to have much interest when you follow the sport closely, yet know nothing about the runners. That was not the case in the senior race, which was a great race and there was no shortage of talk, rightly so, about Kiplimo, Kamworor, and Cheptegei eventually, as well as Barega, because they have well-known results and stories, though we still don't know that much about their backgrounds individually.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
It is true that few if any junior runners were widely known other than Ingebrigtsen. I'd completely welcome East African commentators (tough to get Haile, but he'd be great) to shed light on the backstories of the runners. It's hard to have much interest when you follow the sport closely, yet know nothing about the runners. That was not the case in the senior race, which was a great race and there was no shortage of talk, rightly so, about Kiplimo, Kamworor, and Cheptegei eventually, as well as Barega, because they have well-known results and stories, though we still don't know that much about their backgrounds individually.
Just curious if you followed and knew about Kiplimo, Kamworor, and Cheptegei when they were juniors?
Platonic wrote:
The real victims are the people who live in shithole countries.
Maybe you live in a shithole country but aren't self aware enough to realize it.
AlternateTranslation wrote:
thetranslator wrote:
Results of translation:
“Victimvictimvictimvictimvictim???????????victimvictimvictimvictim”
Who's really the victim? The whole idea of delegitimizing the East Africans' performance is to make the 12th place European feel/look better. Now who's the real victim. By all accounts those East Africans dealt out a good 'ol fashion a$$ whooping.
There is no "real victim". There is someone with an awful victim mentality that will make up an injustice daily to cry about because he's so sensitive.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
It is true that few if any junior runners were widely known other than Ingebrigtsen. I'd completely welcome East African commentators (tough to get Haile, but he'd be great) to shed light on the backstories of the runners. It's hard to have much interest when you follow the sport closely, yet know nothing about the runners. That was not the case in the senior race, which was a great race and there was no shortage of talk, rightly so, about Kiplimo, Kamworor, and Cheptegei eventually, as well as Barega, because they have well-known results and stories, though we still don't know that much about their backgrounds individually.
Yeah, I know Haile would almost definitely be a no go, but it would for sure be a great solution to get the Africans the coverage they deserve. And yeah, I was referring to the junior races where pretty much all of the Africans are unknown to most white/European fans. The senior race doesn't suffer from this.
Coach McGuirk wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Really? Take the guy that finished fourth, for example. He’s promising 18-year old Kenyan steeplechaser Leonard Bett who (rightly) didn’t get as much attention because he finished just outside the podium, but he was a definite factor in how the race developed (unlike Ingebrigtsen) and hardly a “no-name” for true fans of the sport.
Here he is giving Edward Cheserek a run for his money:
https://youtu.be/3QvhHpcBTYIAnd here he is winning truly spectacular WU18s in front of the kind of audience you’d think the Eurocentric IAAF would be loathe to alienate:
https://youtu.be/6uchCDZV7PkThese juniors are “no-names” simply because you’re not trying to know about them.
Hi El Keniano
You make some pretty solid points. Some African runners in the race definitely weren't no names. Anyone who says all of the Africans were no names are simply ignorant, jealous, stubborn, or insecure. Are they as known to most of the viewers of the meet as Ingebrigtsen? I would say no. Admittedly, I'm just as ignorant towards non big name African runners as most white/European fans. The fault in your thinking, is when you deem it racist. Also admittedly, I'm not sure if you have explicitly called it racist in this thread or not. It's not racist, it's simply bias. All races/cultures are biased. We can't help it. Admitting you're biased is a good first step tho. Because of this bias, of course Tim Hutchins, or whoever commentated the meet, is going to mention Ingebrigtsen more often, especially towards the front half of the race. He was simply trying to fill dead air, by drawing on whatever runner he knew the most about, and to a white/European, that's gonna be Ingebrigtsen. The solution, I believe, is bringing in a third commentator who has better knowledge of the African runners. I know he's president of Ethiopian Athletics or whatever, but Gebrselassie would be a great choice, in my opinion. I would say he's universally beloved (even by the white people of Letsrun), knowledgeable, and his English is great (for a born and raised Ethiopian). If he's too busy or if he finds it beneath him, which he might, find another guy who's knowledgeable of the African running scene and who speaks good English. People will always be biased, we can't help it, but owning up to that bias and trying to put measures into place that improves the situation is the key.
I'm looking forward to your reply :)
Sport should, by default, incentivise talent and encourage the best to compete, not discourage them by amputating the section that attracts talent from non-traditional parts of the world. If we cut middle and distance running from the Olympics, there’s a legitimate chance that 99.9% of all Olympic medals will go to wealthier more established countries (and I include Russia and China in these). What kind of selfish, exclusionary greed does it take to support this kind of status quo?
Also, it’s not about having Ethiopian athletes speak English or finding an English-speaking Ethiopian commentator, it’s about relatively well-paid professional journalists failing to do their homework as their jobs require. They should be prepared even for athletes from Peru, Vietnam or Papua New Guinea. I don’t think Yuki Kawauchi speaks any English (I could be wrong), but commentators know an awful lot about his story making him probably one of the best known and most marketable cult heroes of the sport.
El Keniano wrote:
Coach McGuirk wrote:
Hi El Keniano
You make some pretty solid points. Some African runners in the race definitely weren't no names. Anyone who says all of the Africans were no names are simply ignorant, jealous, stubborn, or insecure. Are they as known to most of the viewers of the meet as Ingebrigtsen? I would say no. Admittedly, I'm just as ignorant towards non big name African runners as most white/European fans. The fault in your thinking, is when you deem it racist. Also admittedly, I'm not sure if you have explicitly called it racist in this thread or not. It's not racist, it's simply bias. All races/cultures are biased. We can't help it. Admitting you're biased is a good first step tho. Because of this bias, of course Tim Hutchins, or whoever commentated the meet, is going to mention Ingebrigtsen more often, especially towards the front half of the race. He was simply trying to fill dead air, by drawing on whatever runner he knew the most about, and to a white/European, that's gonna be Ingebrigtsen. The solution, I believe, is bringing in a third commentator who has better knowledge of the African runners. I know he's president of Ethiopian Athletics or whatever, but Gebrselassie would be a great choice, in my opinion. I would say he's universally beloved (even by the white people of Letsrun), knowledgeable, and his English is great (for a born and raised Ethiopian). If he's too busy or if he finds it beneath him, which he might, find another guy who's knowledgeable of the African running scene and who speaks good English. People will always be biased, we can't help it, but owning up to that bias and trying to put measures into place that improves the situation is the key.
I'm looking forward to your reply :)
Sport should, by default, incentivise talent and encourage the best to compete, not discourage them by amputating the section that attracts talent from non-traditional parts of the world. If we cut middle and distance running from the Olympics, there’s a legitimate chance that 99.9% of all Olympic medals will go to wealthier more established countries (and I include Russia and China in these). What kind of selfish, exclusionary greed does it take to support this kind of status quo?
Also, it’s not about having Ethiopian athletes speak English or finding an English-speaking Ethiopian commentator, it’s about relatively well-paid professional journalists failing to do their homework as their jobs require. They should be prepared even for athletes from Peru, Vietnam or Papua New Guinea. I don’t think Yuki Kawauchi speaks any English (I could be wrong), but commentators know an awful lot about his story making him probably one of the best known and most marketable cult heroes of the sport.
Wait, since when is middle distance running being cut? Did you just make that up to try and make a point? I think you did.
El K, it's completely unnecessary. You may find it hard to believe but I've read your posts and agreed with them on plenty of occasions on this board. However, you do yourself no favours. You're overly melodramatic, crying wolf! Come on dude.
Respond to the reasonable posters who put forward a decent argument and ignore the ones who are clearly baiting you. There are plenty of posters on this thread, myself included, who have given completely logical reasons for how the commentary unfolded.
As another poster just noted, compare it to the senior race. The commentary team barely touched on the races of any European or white runners. Why? Because the top pack had narratives and stories that fans could relate to, that commentators could explain. Do you think the commentators were only racist for the U20 race and then suddenly changed their world views? Of course you don't.
How exactly do you find out about Worku? The internet gives you nothing. Do you expect the commentary team to be funded and travel the world seeking out the coaches and agents of these runners? Every runner in the field? It's simply not realistic.
You speak about Yuki, how do we know so much about him? BECAUSE HE RACES EVERY DAMN FORTNIGHT!!! Not because he gives a ton of interviews in English. He's from a media saturated, technologically advanced nation and has thousands of articles written about him every year. Tadese Worku is literally the opposite of this. Don't put up straw man arguments. You're better than that.
Yeah that's cause Brett Larner blogs about Yuki and promotes his story. Meanwhile I can't find much online about the Ethiopian juniors and I don't even see the results of their XC trials. I don't deny bias exists but there are lots of ways these athletes could be promoted better and you can't place the blame squarely on 'racist' commentators.
AlternateTranslation wrote:
Platonic wrote:
The real victims are the people who live in shithole countries.
Maybe you live in a shithole country but aren't self aware enough to realize it.
Maybe
What does that have to do with anything?
Got it. Mengesha and Worku should hire PR teams and put extra effort to get their stories out there themselves. On the other hand , former unknowns like Moen and Wanders (and even the likes of Guyliev and Lemaitre, by extension) only need to show up to races whilst being white. The PR part will be done for them by the media because that’s their job.
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's midnight and you should get some sleep if you want to watch Rachel Maddow in 4 hours.
Well hiring a PR team would be a start.
Lets face it Ingebritsen's story is so well known because of the media machine around his family. Whether you like it or not, bottom line is any young athletes needs to cultivate some degree of media presence in this day and age if they are to attract any significant sponsor, given most sports wear companies generally target so called 'influencers' than athletes. It's the way of the world and it's got nothing to do with black, white, brown or any other colour.
This isn't a meritocracy so you'd be well advised to lose that arcane thinking.
why are you awake? wrote:
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's midnight and you should get some sleep if you want to watch Rachel Maddow in 4 hours.
Why do you care?
657567567 wrote:
why are you awake? wrote:
Shouldn't you be in bed? It's midnight and you should get some sleep if you want to watch Rachel Maddow in 4 hours.
Why do you care?
Why shouldn't I?
El Keniano wrote:
Got it. Mengesha and Worku should hire PR teams and put extra effort to get their stories out there themselves. On the other hand , former unknowns like Moen and Wanders (and even the likes of Guyliev and Lemaitre, by extension) only need to show up to races whilst being white. The PR part will be done for them by the media because that’s their job.
Julien Wanders has a huge social media following! He literally put it out there himself!! And has a more unusual story (moving abroad at a very young age) than most athletes. Not to mention he has a European record that he took off Mo. That, you know, might generate publicity.
Sondre Moen also set a European Record!!! And was being coached by one of the best known coaches in the sport.
Are you telling me you knew tons about him before 2017 Fukuoka? When he was a 28mid/62/2:14 runner? Because that's what we're discussing, how much is known about these athletes BEFORE the breakthrough. You can bet that commentators will know more about Mengesha and Worku from now on.
You're literally making my point for me.
And naming sprinters who have been racing on the international scene for quite literally over a decade? What's your argument? That they're only known because they're ethnically white/central asian? Do you not think more is known about them due to having 12 years worth of race results at the highest level? No? Unlike Tadese Worku who has two documented race results ever?
Stop tying yourself in knots and admit that you're looking for problems that might not exist here.
How do you explain the totally opposite style of commentary in the mens senior race? You've ignored that point so far. Conveniently.
El Keniano wrote:
In hindsight, not unexpected from a protege of one of the 20th century’s vilest characters, the terrible Margaret Thatcher. I think the only solution is for Africa, Asia and South America to start considering a challenge to the Coe regime. It can be done. We have the numbers.
LOL, don't even know where to begin!
It was Seb Coe who was trying to get cross country added to the Winter Olympics to increase inclusion.
why are you awake? wrote:
657567567 wrote:
Why do you care?
Why shouldn't I?
You care about some LRC's poster's bedtime?
LOL
6576578 wrote:
why are you awake? wrote:
Why shouldn't I?
You care about some LRC's poster's bedtime?
LOL
It's funny to be concerned with other people's health and well being?
why are you awake? wrote:
6576578 wrote:
You care about some LRC's poster's bedtime?
LOL
It's funny to be concerned with other people's health and well being?
I’m up, in case anyone’s keeping tabs on my sleeping habits. Show’s on so I might respond during a commercial break or after it ends in 25 minutes.