Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest for Amateur Glory is back!

I forgot to mention that I met a lurker of this thread shooting for a sub 2:30 debut at Grandma. He was doing some 800s at the local track. We coordinated doing our workouts backwards and after discussing my workout, he put two and two together. Hopefully we'll get a run in together soon. The small world of letsrun.

After a few years off from marathoning I was told I had to run Boston by my wife who is also running. Because of injury and lack of fitness I barely qualified and am in corral 7 wave 1.

This will be my 5th Boston. Every other time I’ve run Boston I’ve been in corral 1 wave 1. My PR is 2:30:20. I am very fit now and my workouts indicated I should be able to run low 2:30s. I’m thinking about falling back to wave 2 to avoid the stampede in wave 1. Anyone have experience in this position? Thank you.

I had a down week in terms of mileage and workout intensity, but made up for it this morning with a big 8k pr. I came into the race hoping for a sub 26:00 and managed a 25:33 with splits of 5:11, 5:00, 5:05, 5:07, 5:03 (last 0.97). This was a big confidence boost for me as it seems that my fitness is trending in the right direction and I've been lucky enough to take some chunks off of my mile-8k prs in the last couple of months.

M- 12 with 1k, 2 x (600,500,400,300,200), 1k. Ran the first set around 5:00 pace and the second was a cut down to around 4:40 pace.

Tu- 11 easy

We-9 easy

Th- 12x400/100 jog @8k goal pace, avg 76.5

Fr- 7 easy

Sa- 6 easy

Su- 13 with 8k in 25:33. 3 mile warm up, 5 mile cool down.

This weekend marks 12 weeks out from Grandmas. I'm planning on bumping the mileage up to around 80 for the next coupl of weeks and to transition to some more threshold-oriented workouts.

Did some math the other day, and I calculated that my last 23 weeks averaged 79 miles/week. Not bad, especially with a few tapers included and recovering from a 50k.

My last 2 weeks have been pretty different.

2 weeks ago I did 79mi in 9:21, with an 18mi run with 14mi at 6:11s and then a road 5k in sub-16. 1500' climbing total

and this week:

M 2x 6mi easy runs, both slow.

T 9.5 at 50mi effort on course. then 2.6mi jog/walk with dog in evening

W 34 miles on 50mi course, at a little slower than race pace. 4.5 hours. felt pretty good, happy about this one.

Th 2.1mi jog/walk with dog just for recovery

F off, because rest seemed important today.

Sa 10mi hilly at 50mi effort on roads.

Su 6mi in morning, then 5.x miles in afternoon with very steep hill circuits on trail. hiked/jogged as needed. 1600' for 50min

total 82 miles, 10:56, 7700' climbing.

The long run (55k) on wednesday was a perfect confidence booster and final specific long run. It's probably not necessary to run this far to train for a 50 miler but because it's my debut, I figured it would be worth the extra recovery. kind of like how people do 24+ miles before a marathon. this run didn't feel too hard, and it was about 70% at race effort with 30% just a little slower.

I had mentioned doing another 5k next weekend but I think I'm bailing on that to be able to work a local race and make some $$$.

and I agree with the others Amateur...make sure your knee gets 100% before you train hard on it. 8 weeks out is not the time to be taking risks.

Thanks, Reed. I agree with not taking any risks until 100%. Nice consistency the past 23 weeks btw!

My plan this week is no hard training and taking things day to day. I will take advantage of the gym membership my wife got us and run easy on the treadmill today just in case the knee hurts I can just step off, plus softer surface. I’ll be 37 this year so it’s time to get smart!

@whid, how did that long run go? I have been periodically wondering about it.

Same here whid!

Whelp, looks like I am being forced to take three days off due to the oral surgery I had this morning. Almost missed the appointment as I forgot, but damn, gingival grafts are quite painful and they strictly said no aerobic activity for three days so the graft can heal. I’m taking this as great timing to let my knee recover... still hurts going down stairs right on the pes anserine bursa, but don’t think it’s an mcl strain or year as there would have been some swelling. This will put me at 4 days off by Thursday so I’ll take it easy the rest of the week and then I’m just 8 weeks out. My rational mind is reminding me that I won’t loose fitness in 4 days, I have good training in my legs, and that the knee will get better, but this sucks! Glad I get to work from home the rest of the day as I’m still bleeding a bit and feel like I got punched in the face while sitting here at CVS... lol, can only get better from here!

Had another good week capped off by an awesome long run yesterday.

Monday: 6.5 miles easy, very sore from HM

Tuesday: 15 miles @ 6:30

Wednesday: 15.5 miles easy

Thursday: 6.8 in afternoon and 8.3 more at night

Friday: 12.5 total with 5 mile progression run from 6min down to 5:30, then a couple hard intervals on the track that were way slower than desired.

Saturday: Easy 7.7 miles

Sunday: 22 miles in 2:13:58 on marathon course from mile 4 to finish. Progressed from 6:20 down to 5:40, averaging 6:05 per mile.

94.5 miles or so total

Some of the days my legs felt like garbage (especially Saturday), but Sunday was a fantastic day with fantastic weather and was just cruising the whole way. Need to treat the body well (quads have been sore all week) but I'm very optimistic about breaking 2:30 after the long run. I had a few gears left, and definitely could've broken 2:40 if I'd finished the last few miles. Wasn't close to bonking either.

The next week or two is going to be a grind, should hit about 210 between the next two weeks combined before beginning a big taper the few days before the race. Excited! 21 days to boston.

Shane33 wrote:

@whid, how did that long run go? I have been periodically wondering about it.

Hey Shane thanks for asking. I actually just did it today (after a long day at work, bleh) and finally got around to this thread again.

So yesterday I planned to go long but stopped by my buddy's house closeby to my start point to pee. Well, I forgot he had cats and I'm pretty allergic to those. 5 minutes in his house made me asthmatic by the time I started my run, but my stubborn ass still tried as best I could with a swollen throat. I did 10 miles at about 6:10 pace before I called it, frustrated and wheezing.

I did 22 day and it was solid despite not being what I originally planned pace structuring wise. It turns out 16 @ MP mid run was, indeed, a bit too ambitious, but not by a crazy about. Here's what I did:

1 mi lead in - 6:03

2nd mile - 5:44

3rd mile - 5:33, whoops, well time to roll with it I guess

Averaged 5:47 for the next 11 and change. Miles 2-14.1 in ~1:15:15.

Didn't do the 1 mile fast because that was definitely me getting plan-writing-happy when thinking of the workout, but held on to 6min pace for the rest of the run. Miles 20 and 21 were both about 6:15, so I slipped a bit there, but finished 22 in 2:11. Not sure how much the accidental 5:33 at the start hurt me in the end, though it likely affected the back end of my run a little. Gotta learn to control myself better.

All in all I'm happy about this effort, especially after 10mi yesterday at medium effort and achilles troubles last week. While I'm confident in my ability to bust a good time after leading into the race for the next 3 weeks, I may have to keep myself more grounded than previously thought. Honestly, my conclusion is that I'm just going to have to feel it out on race day and be prepared to take advantage of whatever happens.

The hay is in the barn as of today and now it's time to focus just as seriously on recovery and tapering as I did during peak training

@Amateur if it's any consolation, VO2max begins a soft decline at 10 days of no physical activity and then a harder decline after about 2 weeks. The most you lose in 4 days is the springyness in your legs they have been habituated to by consistent training. Also - thanks for also wondering about my run, lol, I read Shane's post and was so tired from the run I just decided to stop reading after his post

22.1 in 2:11* forgot that tidbit as it does take the overall pace down to 5:54 or so. this is just me being petty

Whid - all you gotta do 21 days from know is keep it cool the first bit and run 11secs faster per mile after tapered and in a race and you got sub 2:30! 5:54 for 22 is super promising in my amatuer opinion. Well done.

Really do appreciate the consolation regarding the time off... takes the edge off a bit, but I can’t wait to be back at it come Thursday.

I have been a silent stalker of this thread and it has been great to follow along - some very impressive work being put in!

I am another runner in the Boston Marathon crew - Corral 1/ Wave 1, using Tokyo as my qualifier (2:36 debut marathon with 1:19/1:17 splits)

Unfortunately had an injury in January, but now have 6-8 weeks of solid training building towards Boston and am in better shape than I was ahead of Tokyo.

Only problem is that while building back up, have not been able to handle the massive workouts to get a better indication if I am ready for 2:29.

I will likely go out a bit more conservative than the Boston Pack planning for 1:14, likely somewhere in 1:15-16 range and hopefully be able to go from there.

Week of March 18th:

Mon: Took flight entire day

Tues: Easy 7 Miles + weights

Wed: Easy 8 Miles

Thurs: 6 Miles including 8 x 300m hill sprint, jog down

Fri: Easy 6 miles + Track drills

Sat: AM 7 Miles with 30 minute Fartlek (covered 5 miles) PM 5 Miles Recovery

Sun: 20.2 Miles, 2:06 - Boston Course Simulation: 6 Miles net downhill, 6 Miles at ~5:50, 3 x 1k uphill and back down, 4 miles steady

Week Total: 60 Miles

Looks like I might be im good shape after all. Had a good 4 x 3200m workout overseas (400m rest / approximately 2:30), and not on the treadmill :-)

10.43 / 10.49 / 10.45 / 10.49

1 and 3 with tail wind, 2 and 4 with headwind.

I still plan a hard long run on Sunday.

5 km easy, 10 km @ MP (app 35.30), 10' easy, 10 km faster than MP (will target sub 35), 5 km easy. Total of approximately 20 miles.

I did some math and I have averaged 59 miles for the last 10 weeks. Slightly less than what I did before my PR. Overall my training has been less consistent this time. I had a peak of 90 miles and low of 40 in a week. If was able to run 2h30 in a flat course training better, then it does not seem realistic for me to run 2h29 in Boston.

More like 2h33 / 2h34.

However, in a few of the hard workouts I performed better this time. This 4 x 3200m is a good example. I felt great.

The workout on Sunday will tell a lot, as I will be tired, and jet lagged after a long travel.

Still I am not interested in a 2h33 / 34 finish, and will risk the sub 2h30.

Planning to run the Half @ approximately 74:15, if weather is good and I manage to stay healthy.

On Sunday I write on how the session went.

Whid and Bouldrunner, you have both good chances of sub 2h30, believe me. I have been following your schedules and I can tell that I was not training that well before runming 2h30. You both have a good shot, and a strong component of it is believing that you can do it. I know you can.

Good luck all on the final hard workouts before Boston... and for those training for other races, keep up the good work!

I hope to be following this thread in another few years with the same goal of getting into the 2:2x's. Good luck to anyone who is aiming to get this milestone now.

rfmaioral, you're definitely ahead of 2:33-2:34. maybe 2:31, but definitely close enough to 2:30 to go for it. don't know if 1:14:15 is the best way to try though. seems a bit aggressive.

@rfmaioral, thanks for the vote of confidence. I've definitely considered that I have a 2:2x in me. If I just go off my workouts and vdot, Im not quite there, but my race at Boston last year suggests that I might underestimate. In last years thread I said "I feel like I have 2 minutes to spare between current fitness and my 2:35 goal, so Im going for it tomorrow." I ended up running 2:35:50. I handled the conditions as well as anyone, but by most accounts I underestimated the weather impact and my fitness. Right now I'd estimate I have a 2:31-2:32 in me, but if I'm underestimating again...

I also think you are a bit ahead of me, so Im surprised to hear you say you think you only have a 2:33-2:34. I think you are well above that.

Reed is right about pacing. Everyone talks about a positive split of 1-2 minutes. This is the time in the bank strategy, but the time you are putting in the bank has to come from somewhere. And at Boston that means borrowing from your quads in the early miles (and mile 16). The time you borrow from your quads has a very high interest rate and then it has a massive balloon payment due around mile 23. That minute or two you put in the bank, will not save you at all when the balloon payment comes due in full and with interest. 1:14:45 to run 2:29:55 (25 second positive split.)

I did the math wrong. I would actually shoot for a 15 second positive split so go out in 1:14:50.

A few people have posted average mileages. Since December Ive averaged 84 per week, but 91 if I take out my terrible february.