Is Galen Rupp's easy pace the reason he's heads and shoulders above everyone else in U.S Marathon running?

ex-runner said: I'm saying the sport would be more attractive to westerners looking to make a living.

so what's the connection between, "westerners looking to make a living," and high performance?

if a guy gets into running "to make a living," he isn't going to have the commitment and dedication to train for a 2:06 marathon. he's going to finish top-3 in a $3000 road race every other weekend and "make a living" without having to train overly much or deny himself anything.

in my opinion, high performance comes from folk who commit themselves to achieving that level, whatever it takes. whatever the cost. whatever is required to be sacrificed. and therefore, the absence of money, or the paltry sums on offer, are not a factor in determining why American men, in general, suck at distance running.

cheers.

Sondre Moen is a guy with the typical talent of American 2:12 runners. To become a 2:05 or below runner, those Americans can take similar steps as Moen to achieve fast times.

cotton shirt wrote:

ex-runner said: I'm saying the sport would be more attractive to westerners looking to make a living.

so what's the connection between, "westerners looking to make a living," and high performance?

if a guy gets into running "to make a living," he isn't going to have the commitment and dedication to train for a 2:06 marathon. he's going to finish top-3 in a $3000 road race every other weekend and "make a living" without having to train overly much or deny himself anything.

in my opinion, high performance comes from folk who commit themselves to achieving that level, whatever it takes. whatever the cost. whatever is required to be sacrificed. and therefore, the absence of money, or the paltry sums on offer, are not a factor in determining why American men, in general, suck at distance running.

cheers.

I simply don't agree. There are British cyclists who give absolutely everything to be top riders in the tour, and they also get paid very well to do so.

In the real world, unless you are from a rich background, you simply cannot afford to give up employment to become a top runner. This isn't an inspirational movie.

Take Boris Berian, he was flipping burgers until someone offered him a spot on a professional athletics team. He couldn't afford to give up his job and live on the streets to chase his dream of being a runner. It's not feasible.

I'm simply saying there is plenty of athletic talent which isn't attracted to this sport because of the lack of money. They play other sports instead, or give up after college/uni

ex-runner said: In the real world, unless you are from a rich background, you simply cannot afford to give up employment to become a top runner.

thank you for your patience. I feel a bit dim now for not realising earlier what you meant.

so, what we have is three groups of guys:

group 1. the guys in the pro teams whose college pr's were good enough to impress someone to sponsor them to pursue the dream for a while. these are the guys whose college pr's translate into 2:12, and so the reason they are collectively stuck at 2:12 is because the recruitment process is not identifying the real talent.

group 2. the guys from rich backgrounds or with low lifestyle requirements (I'm thinking folk like Noah Droddy and Emma Bates) who can independently pursue the dream. although not training for the marathon, folk like Charlie Marquardt and Rochelle Kanuho probably belong in this group too. these folk may or may not have the talent, but they have drive and ambition in spades and will do ANYTHING to succeed.

group 3. the guys who may or may not have the talent but when college ended they could not envisage or navigate their way to a lifestyle like group 2, so they hung up their spikes and became corporate drones with memories and regrets.

which means that the reason American's suck at distance running is that the recruitment process into the pro and semi-pro groups is not identifying the real talent, but is relying on an outdated model that superior college 5000m / 10,000m times will translate into distance performance. and this is, possibly, closely aligned with the total absence of post-college outlets for anyone interested in track and field.

group dynamics also plays a part in this, so that a highly focused, talented athlete with drive and ambition but no social skills and no life on WhatsTwat will probably get overlooked while a mediocre guy with a personality and social media presence will get sponsored to say what great shoes he wears. if you were designing a national policy for developing the sport, is this what you would invent?

cheers.

westerners do not run principally for money. in his entire running career Bill Rodgers won the grand total of $76,985 dollars. that didn't stop him running 2:09. and it is, incidentally, Bill's birthday today so happy birthday Bill Rodgers.

cheers.

The point is that he would not have bust a gut to run 2:09 if 2:09 would be 7 minutes behind the best, and basically go unnoticed. His motivation was to get as close to world best as possible.

I don't believe any national policy would help the situation in athletics. The sport should become self sustaining in bringing in and distributing revenue amongst the winners.

Right now, athletics as a sport and shoe companies make a lot of money. However with the antiquated rules around sponsorship, and the greed of meet organisers, athletes can't make money.

Look at Nick Symmonds, T mobile paid him $20,000 to put a small temporary tattoo on his shoulder. USATF/IAAF and the likes shut it down.

If athletes were allowed to cover their vests in sponsorship logos like in many other sports, there would be a much better opportunity for Western athletes to stay in the sport.

It's downright disrespectful in my opinion to criticise a person with talent for not giving up their job and life to pursue 'greatness' in a sport that probably won't reward them unless they are a top sprinter.

The Kenyans are the professionals in this sport. They can afford to live, breathe and sleep athletics from juniors to sub elites to elites. Many westerners are working second jobs or just give up/don't consider athletics as an option.

whereas I don't believe any improvements are possible without the lead being made by the national governing bodies. any change has to come from the top.

that is a misrepresentation of the facts.

in 2012 Nick Symmonds held an auction on Facebook and rented out a patch on his left shoulder to a company called Hanson Dodge Creative, an advertising and design agency in Milwaukee, who paid $11,100 for the privilege. Nick wore the tattoo for several months, including right through the London 2012 Olympics. however, the rules of the International Olympic Committee (not USATF or the IAAF) prevent athletes wearing sponsorship or logos during races. he had to cover it up during races but wore it openly displayed at all other times, including in interviews on tv and in photos in newspaper articles including the New York Times. the company were very happy with the exposure they got from it and put a full testimonial on his Facebook page to say so.

in 2016 he repeated the exercise, and this time T-Mobile won the auction and paid him $20,000. he also made some ad's for T-Mobile. once again, during actual races he had to cover up the tattoo but otherwise wore it all the time. additionally, IOC rules forbid athletes appearing in ad's, during the Olympics, from companies who are not Olympic sponsors, so the T-Mobile ad's featuring Nick could not be aired during the games, but were shown both before and after the games and the company were very grateful to him for the exposure it brought them.

I'm not sure what prompted this comment because I have not criticised any athletes. my beef is with the organisers, national governing bodies, the IAAF and the various bodies who pretend to be fighting drugs in our sport. when Seb Coe was made the top honcho at the IAAF I had great hopes for progress but he has been asleep at the wheel for five years now and will probably wake up just in time to go home.

cheers.

Apologies, nothing aimed at you specifically, lots of posters on this site criticise athletes for not having the fire when reality is it's not always possible to follow the dream.

As for Nick Symmonds, the fact he couldn't wear it during races or around the Olympics is exactly my problem. Other sports do not have these same limitations. Racing drivers are covered with logos during races and make a lot more money than athletes.