The master's mile thread

not always wrote:

Any update to share? This could be a promising thread.

I haven't specifically trained for the mile since high school. And only ran 4:45 back then.

At 43, I ran a few 1-mile races, road and track, looking to break 5:00, but 5:06 was the best I managed. I agree with the advice to dedicate the better part of a season to track racing, 800m, 1500 and mile. It's not realistic to step down from marathon and 5K training, and expect to immediately reach your potential at the mile. The mental aspect, alone, requires practice.

This past summer, at 58, I raced a track mile for the first time since 43. My only specific training were two 1200m time trials. The tt pace exactly predicted my 5:38 race results. It would have been fun to run a few more to see what the potential might be. But I was targeting a 15K, and stayed with that.

In the middle of 10k XC training. This week was not what I planned, as I meant to only run hard on Tuesday and Saturday and not so much in the LT zone. Hoping to get some more structure and balance next week.

M. 6 mi easy @7:20

T. Am 7mi easy @ 7:30, Pm 7 mi w/5k tempo~17:00

W. 6 mi easy @7:20

R. Am 5.5 mi easy, Pm 9 mi w/5mi tempo 28:10

F. Off

S. 7.5 mi Wu, 5*2k XC @ 1/2 mar effort 400m rest, 1.75 cd

S. 8 mi Wu, 20x 1min @ 5:20/30 sec jog, 1.75mi cd

72.5 mi

41 years old here. Never run sub-5, although I've run a 2:07 800 and 16:50 5k XC when I was a poorly trained teenager.

I ran a 3:12 marathon this year and I'd while I'd like to go sub-3 soon, I'd also like to go sub-5 before I get too old. Subscribed.

I'm 59 and want to get back into the 800/mile but I can't shake nagging injuries.

I'll tell you this- I broke 5:00 up until I was 48.

I was looking forward to turning 50 and breaking 5:00 (it's not common).

The wheels literally fell off. I haven't been close since turning 50.

At what age do you become a masters runner!?

I like 800/1mile training in the winter because excessive running past the age of 35 is bad for you. Bad for your knees , bad for your heart . Your PR's are over, so just train for health .

ItsGettingBetteAllTheTime wrote:

At what age do you become a masters runner!?

35.

Veterans - the traditional term - are grizzly old guys with bits falling off and a thousand mile stare. They traditionally began at 40. "Masters" are a sort of Californian rebranding, all silver hair and charm and fancy sports cars, and in keeping with this can get away with being a little younger - these days it starts at 35.

Veterans - the traditional term - are grizzly old guys with bits falling off and a thousand mile stare. They traditionally began at 40. "Masters" are a sort of Californian rebranding, all silver hair and charm and fancy sports cars, and in keeping with this can get away with being a little younger - these days it starts at 35.[/quote]

Just looking in the mirror and....yup, definitely a Veteran.

So here's an update. The December race never got organized, unfortunately, so I'll open with a 5K in February off of mile training, and probably with dodgy weather to deal with. I won't get a real mile race until March, probably.

Trying Daniels Q3 is interesting. I started phase 2 workouts, but had to take a down week after a few weeks, and I'm dialing back the volume. I've done the workouts with sets of (2 x 200, 1 x 400) and (2 x 200, 1 x 800) at R/mile pace, but I can only tolerate just over 1 mile of total volume, so 2 sets max for now. With 3 workouts a week, I can only do about 1.5 miles at I/5K pace. I've done buildups to longer races with 2 workouts a week and more volume, but for now I'll try sticking with 3 smaller workouts. Call it Daniels Q1.5 (three half-workouts per week). I have added sets of squats with free weights after each workout, though. It's my first time doing any kind of lifting beyond body-weight exercises.

To recover, I've had to cut my weekly mileage to around 35-40 mpw. The higher gears are definitely starting to feel a bit more accessible, though, so I may be able to increase volume a bit at some point. My fastest reps are still coming in at 5:20/mile pace or so.

Next update:

I've been able to get my mileage back up to 40-50/week. I made it through Daniels phases II and III and worked up to doing full-length workouts and hitting my goal paces, although I dropped down to 2 workouts per week. Trying to fit in 3 workouts didn't allow for enough recovery, and without enough recovery I couldn't hit the full workouts.

Once the weather got better, I was able to move my running and workouts back outside...and my times dropped by 10-20 seconds. After months indoors, adding even slight hills and wind was a tough adjustment. I could hit 5:10 pace indoors for pace in workouts (but just 5:20 for 8 x 400), then dropped to 5:25 for 10 x 400 outdoors. Same with I pace: from 5:42 to 5:55-6:05 for intervals of 800-1200m.

Adding squats was good. I definitely felt more power in my stride and I could handle higher volumes of running workouts, and my upper hamstring soreness has disappeared after a couple years of nagging me.

I finally got a chance to race a mile: 5:20 under near-time trial conditions, and I was tapered for it. That's not the time I was aiming for (I ran 5:16 in the same race two years ago with no specific training or taper). The course was accurate but weirdly shaped so I don't have splits, but judging by HR, spm, stride length, and the few splits I caught, I ran very close to even effort/even pace. I probably waited 5 years too long to try to break 5:00.

I've got two more 5Ks coming up, including one that's decently competitive, so we'll see what I can do for a 5K off of Daniels mile training. I have another short race in a month, and then my goal mile on a real track in June, so we'll see what Daniels phase IV does for me. After that, it's back to 10K-marathon goal race distances for a few years, so this is probably my last shot at a fast-ish mile time before I hit 50.

Tim L wrote:

Aggie good wrote:

Texas A&M have an Open Indoor Meet, open to all, except high schoolers, in February. Last place in the mile was 5:04 or so last year.

Yeah, I'd DFL that by a long way. I'll be lucky to be sub-6 by Feb.

yea the # to watch out for as a ~6:00 /miler for instance is somebody in your heat going 4:30 [or better] lol

as thats when you get lapped [1:30/lap for the 6:00 guy implies lap 4 for him begins at ~4:30, eg right around when the fast guy finishes]

so... prepare to move to lane 2 right around the backhalf of your lap 3 lol... or at least look over your shoulder heading into the final turn, if you even see them on the straight probably move over lol

sit and kick wrote:

Tim L wrote:

Yeah, I'd DFL that by a long way. I'll be lucky to be sub-6 by Feb.

yea the # to watch out for as a ~6:00 /miler for instance is somebody in your heat going 4:30 [or better] lol

as thats when you get lapped [1:30/lap for the 6:00 guy implies lap 4 for him begins at ~4:30, eg right around when the fast guy finishes]

so... prepare to move to lane 2 right around the backhalf of your lap 3 lol... or at least look over your shoulder heading into the final turn, if you even see them on the straight probably move over lol

Are you really laughing out loud each time you write "lol", or are you just a 13 year old girl?

a grand # of [2] lol's were typed. Not saying I know the proper # times to use that acronym, but am not sure the second usage in a given antiquated message board response implies the poster is a 13 YO girl.

I’m 54. I run about 3 days/week. 3 or 4 miles. So weekly mileage is about 10 miles week, which seems to be all I can take without getting injured. I ran a 5:13 mile last Thursday night on the track by myself so I just got the itch to compete again after almost 30 years. I would love to be able to do some of the training some of you are doing. Also, I have no idea where to find any track races for old guys

counter of LOLs wrote:

a grand # of [2] lol's were typed. Not saying I know the proper # times to use that acronym, but am not sure the second usage in a given antiquated message board response implies the poster is a 13 YO girl.

Counting the third one, there were 3. But who's counting?

Just saw this thread. I stopped running after college but kept in relatively good shape by lifting and playing Bball. Picked running back up 16 years later and started the masters circuit two years later. Broke 5 mins from 4 years in a row, with last year being my “fastest”, 4:49 conversion from a 1500.

A couple of tips for the mile.

1. Put in the fall mileage by either competing in XC or signing up for a few road races.

2. Run some college or high school “open” meets if you can. Time trials don’t always get the competition juices flowing.

3. If you’re chasing a time, take a few more cracks at it if possible. In 2018 I competed the most and ran my fastest masters time despite being three years older than when I started.

4. Build your speed and power. Most masters runners have plenty of aerobic capacity. They lack the leg turnover to run a fast mile.

Here are some tips for getting faster that I posted in the old man shuffle thread.

Repeating what other knowledgeable runners have said. Drills, hills, accels/flys, and lifting should do the trick. Don’t recommend “real plyos” unless racing 100-400m. Yoga classes can get expensive and the ROI isn’t great unless you’re there for the eye candy.

I’ve suffered from the “shuffles” from time to time. Mostly it’s due to being out of aerobic shape or not doing enough ancillary work.

Last outdoor season as a 43 yo I ran low 58 400m (after an earlier 3K) in the beginning of the season and a 4:29 1500m later on (both FAT).

Drills 2x a week: A skip, B skip, C skip, Cariocas, side shuffle, butt kickers, high knees, fast skip, high skip, long skip. Most distance runners have weak and tight hip flexors and lower legs. These will strengthen and improve range of motion. The shuffling comes from not being able to lift the legs or push off the ground quickly. Most of the drills involve hopping and reducing ground contact time. For many runners the longer the foot is on the ground, the more pronounced the shuffling. When possible, do drills barefooted on a soft surface. Again build up to barefoot drills by starting out doing only a few barefoot and the rest with shoes.

Lifting 1-2x a week: Kettle bell swings, lunges, and step ups. Squats alone tend to tighten hip flexors. Lunges and step ups will help with leg balance and drive. Start with just a few and add a 1-2 reps each week. Many shufflers, regardless of age, run hunched over and/or roll their shoulders in. Strengthen the back with two or three of the following: pull downs, military press, pull ups, rows, back extensions, planks, and Superman’s.

Accels/Flys 1-2x a week: In the beginning start with 3 x 20-30m and incorporate leg drive (extension of trail leg + lift of front leg) . Hit around 80 percent of max speed . If you’re doing it right, your hips will start to fatigue near the end. Every few weeks add a rep and 5-10 more meters. After a few months of progression you can work up to flys, hitting and holding top speed.

Jumping rope in place is also an excellent exercise to strengthen lower legs and reduce ground contact time.

Best of luck out there.

Can wrote:

I would love to be able to do some of the training some of you are doing. Also, I have no idea where to find any track races for old guys

I use this site to find Open/Club track meets. Just create a profile and then find meets. Filter for location helps narrow it down.

My mile goal at the end of last year was to run 4:35 in June of this year. While in the middle of 5k training, I ran a 4:17 1500m last Saturday. Splits were:

1 52.058 52.058

2 1:09.963 2:02.021

3 1:08.256 3:10.277

I'm happy with that because my legs were so dead, I thought about not racing. Gives me a little confidence that I'll run a decent 5k. Sub-16?

Also, search events on USATF.org. There's also a separate USATF masters site that will list some regional, and all national/international T&F meets for masters. Facebook also has very active groups at Masters Milers and Masters Track and Field. There are posts made on each daily.

So that was interesting.

After the mile race in April, I tried to get back to training and immediately strained a calf. So I took some days off, then only ran easy mileage for two weeks so I could at least run a local, low-key 5K. It went decently well (about 18:20), so after that I started Daniels phase 4.

It turns out that 4 x 200 at F pace ("fast," 800 pace, which I'm admitting is 5:00/mile) with long rests wiped me out, at least at first. Since then I've gradually increased the volume and gotten close to regular phase 4 workouts, still at 2 workouts a week. Instead of sets of (2 x200 F, 400 F), I did 3 sets of (2 x 150 F, 300 F). Instead of (2 x 200 R, 800 R, 300 F), I did 2 sets of (2 x 150 R, 800 R, 300 F). The other workout each week has been 2-3 sets of (1 mile T, .1 R, .1 F). R pace has been 5:10-20 and F pace has been 4:57-5:00. I had to cut out lifting and core work so I could recover from the workouts.

At my goal 5K race this last weekend, I didn't get a GPS lock at the start, so I had to take the first mile by feel instead of relying on my watch. My splits were probably something like 5:35/5:43/5:47, and I felt strong and picked off other runners the whole time, with a nice final kick. My final time was around 17:35 for 5K, which is a solid adult PR for me, and actually age grades a hair better than my high school PRs - and that's off of mile training.

So that upends my world. I've never tried Daniels before, and I've assumed that periodizing from more general to more specific is the way to go. If it was up to me, I would have had 3 x 1mi or 4 x 1200 at goal pace as a peak 5K workout, but I haven't touched I pace in a workout for two months. I tend to think I do better off of higher mileage, but I've averaged just 38 mpw for the last 10 weeks. I still don't plan on following Daniels for my fall HM, but I have to at least admit there's more than one way to get into shape for a 5K, and Daniels knows a thing or two.

Now I have 2 weeks until my main goal race, a mile track race. I'm hoping I'll recover from the 5K soon enough that I can get in two more workouts before that. It's unlikely I'll get under 5:00, but under 5:10 would be a real accomplishment.