Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11-4-18

outsiderunner wrote:

On the negative side, it is looking like Saturday is going to be a windy day. The wind forecast keeps trending that way. When I ran 2:52 at Richmond last year, things got pretty strung out, and so I am concerned about having to face the wind alone, especially being faster this year.

Accuweather is predicting a very light breeze at the start, 7 mph and 9 mph "gusts," increasing to 10 mph with 14 mph gusts by the end. Wind from the northwest, so a nice little tailwind around the halfway point. Around here, 10 mph is considered a "calm" day, so if that forecast holds, it shouldn't be too bad. And the forecasted temperature and "partly sunny" sounds ideal!

By the way, after only 25 mikes last week, i am currently taking an entire week off (and getting fat, unfortunately -- no self control!), then starting my base building for 2019. Probably starting on the elliptical until I get ahead of my knee issues again.

It's been tough this autumn being on the sidelines while everyone is crushing their marathon goals!

I agree - that current weather forecast looks about perfect. The wind won't be noticeable at all if it stays under 10 mph, and it looks like you get more tailwind than anything else in the second half (when the wind will matter since things won't string out too much until then), with cross winds being next on the list, and only limited headwinds in the second half.

Thanks so much guys...really.

Coach Jeff - What a thoughtful post, especually the first line. Thaks very much, my friend.

Allen/Smoove - Thanks...and I see what you are saying. I see the Accuweather forecast, but I was looking at the weather.com forecast this moring, and it was saying WNW @ 13, and that got my attention. I agree--under 10mph would be okay. In general, I always fear that my little body will wilt in the wind.

RunnerSam - Hey--thanks for the heads-up regarding your 2:40-2:45 friend. Very kind of you to mention this. I will likely be wearing black half tights or black full tights and probably a gray short sleeve with homemade arm warmers (from white socks). Will look for your friend.

RunnerSam - Yea the ladder went well. All I can say is that throwing some 200s in there at the end was fun, haven't done them in years. I was looking at my times on them... 35, 34, 33, 32... realized that around 34 sec is what Kipchoge was running for WR pace in the marathon, and can't imagine how that is humanly possible. I was all out sprinting (which I know I'm not fast...) but DANG. Really put some things in perspective there.

Thanks to everyone for your words of encouragement and support for my NYC Marathon! I will be running Tokyo marathon next and my goal is sub-2:40 if the weather is good. It would be my pipe dream to eventually get to sub-2:35 and qualify for Fukuoka.

RRR: Even in your down weeks that is an impressive amount of cardio.

Stone cutter: That injury/pain sounds terrible.. I wish you a speedy recovery so you can get back on your training plan for Houston.

Theodore: Sorry to hear about your knee problems and I hope the new shoes makes things better for you. You can just treat that 10K as a training tempo run if you are feeling better.

TDR: Solid week of training there.

Smoove: I hope you feel better with your PF soon. From what I have heard from runner friends who have had PF, that is a tough injury to deal with.

GT: Congrats on winning that 5K. We have the same goal for 5K.. I want to go sub-17 as well. Will be interesting to follow your training for a 5K although my focus is on training for Tokyo Marathon in March (sub-2:40 is the my tentative goal).

RGM: Nice foundation laying week with the strength and core training. Now that NYC marathon is over I will be doing more strength/core work and lower mileage early in my buildup to Tokyo in March.

Allen1959: Congrats on winning the masters division for that 5K. Take some time off and let that knee get better. I hope that test result was a false positive as well.

Pewow: Nice taper week and good luck with your race in Philly!

Going faster miles per hour: Lots of trail and hill work.. Strength training for runners!

AJ: Nice mile repeats! Your continuous alteration tempo run sounds really difficult!

Outsiderunner: You run consistently fast workouts! Some people are impressed by my workouts but I think yours are more challenging than mine. Good luck at Richmond this weekend! Will be cheering you on in spirit.

Sub-6:00: Wow.. that is a very fast 12 mile tempo run considering you had a cold and knee issues. Strong work! Enjoy your trip and hope you feel better.

Working Harder: Sorry to hear about the stomach issues derailing your 10K. I had a similar issues before a marathon last year.. I have switched to eating a bland, low FODMAP diet for 2 days before races to help to control the stomach issues. I also will use a Fleets enema to ensure that empty out the bowels before the race. Good luck resolving those stomach issues before your half race.

Team1: Congrats on a monster PR on that downhill marathon. That is an absolutely incredible improvement. I am now wondering how fast I can run a downhill marathon myself. Will need to try to do a Revel marathon one of these days after I finish my World Marathon Majors.

HHH: Solid pace for your long run and nice sub-17 parkrun!

Cocoon: Very solid pacing for your long run.. I think you are in great shape for a sub-3:10 (if not faster) at CIM.

Jewbacca: Very solid 18.5 mile long run. Hope your calf gets better soon.

Statfanatic: Impressive set of workouts as always.. Seems like your easy pace is in the low-6 range so your GMP would be in the low-5 range?

Putomiudo: Congratz on pacing your dad to that marathon finish!

Coyote: Congratz on your excellent 6K XC race with >82% AG time.

Slo-twitch: Very nice alternating tempo run and love that fast finish to your long run. Good luck at Philly in 2 weeks. Taper starts this week? I am going to try to do one of those alternating tempo runs.. Sounds challenging but interesting.

Still improving: Nice training week.. I hope your right knee feels better soon.

LancRunner: Nice mile repeats workout at near-5K pace. I am joining you and GT in the sub-17 5K goal club.

JamestheAmateur: It’s hard to balance training with life but just keep at it and you will get to your goals.

Working Harder: Hope you feel better from whatever bug ails you. Hard to run a fast race if you are sick.

Coach Jeff ROC: Great job giving your best effort in very bad weather conditions. Hot humid conditions will definitely affect your times no matter how you look at it.

RunnerSam: Sounds like you may have to lay off on the coffee. Have you tried taking anything for your gastritis like Pepcid or Prilosec? Good luck in your race this weekend! Just think of this as a taper down-week.

Hantph: Nice tempo run and interesting Smoove special workout.. I need to try that out sometime.

SOBO: Congrats on a huge PR in the NYC marathon. Definitely enjoyed reading your race report. The pacer definitely cost you your sub-3:15 but you will get there and beyond soon!

KidB: Nice 7 mile MP tempo and congratz on your first 20 mile long run. Looking good to hit your goals.

JeremyR: 1:23 seems like a solid half marathon time to me but what were your goals for the half?

RunnersFix: Looking forward to seeing you get your OTQ at CIM. Amazing elite level workouts and mileage. Your 22 mile long run with 16@MP is just incredibly awesome.

Bruin - You are one heck of a speedster, and I admire your running. Right now, I think you are only scratching the surface. I am with you in spirit as you train for Tokyo work toward attaining your Fukuoka dream, which is well within your capability.

Bruin1996 wrote:

Statfanatic: Impressive set of workouts as always.. Seems like your easy pace is in the low-6 range so your GMP would be in the low-5 range?

Ha! GMP is a pretty foreign concept at this point and likely will be for the next decade or so. I'm sticking with the shorter stuff for now. Some day I'll get there.

RunnerSam wrote:

Still Improving/OR - my gf got her knee checked out, scheduled an MRI but they think its a bone bruise from a fall over the summer. SI - sometimes its better to take time off and get it healed rather than train at a sub optimal level

Hopefully with the diagnosis your GF has the info needed to rehab the knee so it gets better soon.

You are absolutely correct in that the best way to rehab my knee injury is to give it some rest. The problem is that I am a little over 3 weeks from my goal race and roughly 2 weeks from the beginning of the taper. I want to maintain the training load in the lead up to the taper in order get the proper effect from the taper. Fortunately, things are holding steady with the knee and possibly getting better as I train though it. I hope that this is the last bump in the road in this marathon build. My goal for the race is a bit of a stretch for me or at least that is how it feels right now. Just doing my best to see if I can get a couple more bails of hay in the proverbial barn before the race.

I am a believer in training thru anything that allows you to run at any speed.

At least has worked for myself.

OR- Good luck tomorrow. Gonna crush it

Bruin- Skimmed through the old pages and just saw your NYC result- wow congrats! As for me, I was hoping 1:21, but the bigger disappointment was the execution. If I crossed the line knowing I gave everything I had, would be different than finishing the last mile feeling "comfortable"

Hey guys, I'm loving reading through this thread each week. Seems like this is the core community of the boards and while I haven't commented much I really enjoy the race recaps and hearing everyone's take on what others are dealing with. Seems like the wisdom in the one thread is equal to what you'll find on the rest of the boards.

That said, I want to get your take on marathon pacing. I, like probably everyone, am afraid of going out too fast and blowing up at the Houston Marathon. So I'm debating on what my goals oughta be. BQ for me is 3:05, but my real goal is sub 3. Not sure if I'm there yet, though my tempos each week are below 6:50, but not without a good effort.

My PRs don't indicate a sub 3 as far as I can tell, but they're all older. 3:33 in 2017 on a hilly(ish) course at the Dallas Marathon, and 1:30:21 at a half marathon last spring. I don't have a recent 5k or 10k, but I think a good 5k estimate would be in the mid to upper 18s right now.

Been running for more than a year on average 60mpw and topping out at 80 for this cycle with lots of at-pace running worked into my remaining 20-milers and 22-milers.

If you were me, how would you approach this thing?

Also, I'll probably use the Dallas Half marathon 5 weeks before the Houston Marathon as a litmus test. What do you think I would need to run there as a good indicator?

Thanks for any feedback!

**I should've said been running for about 3 years, but the last year I've averaged 60mpw.

Thanks, Jeremy! Just about to get in the car and head to Richmond.

Have a great afternoon, guys!

About a 1:25 HM should predict at sub 3. Plus I believe BQs are going to be 5min faster next year so sub 3 will be needed rather than 3:05.

I am not sure of your running background but it might be worth taking a season to focus on 5k/10k if you have never done this. Will likely help your marathon times in the future.

- RunnerSam

Kid B - I usually error on the side of optimism, probably because my own experience is of "over-performing" on race day. But if I were 28 years old, hitting the training paces you've been running, logging 60-80 mpw, and with eight weeks and a few long runs still to go ... well, I would be looking for sub-3 for sure.

Yes, 1:25 for the half marathon would, in my mind, set up near certainty for the sub-3, but 1:27:30 at that point in your training could put you in the ball-park, assuming only a "mini-taper" before, and another long run and full taper still ahead.

By comparison, my last sub-3 was on less mileage and long runs at 8-minute pace. My strongest training run was maybe 14 miles at 7:02/mi. Four weeks before the marathon, I raced a half under 1:23. Marathon was 2:56.

Your half marathon will provide good information for determining marathon pace.

OR - Safe travels, and have a great run tomorrow!

Kid B wrote:

That said, I want to get your take on marathon pacing. I, like probably everyone, am afraid of going out too fast

We put far too much weight on these predictions. Just do the training that is required and become very familiar with marathon EFFORT. The pace will come down as fitness improves and your question (2:59 or 3:06) will be answered on race day.

Kid B - I agree with everything Allen said. Don't get too hung up on the half marathon result though, whether positive or negative. Four years ago I ran a 1:25high and 3:04 two weeks later. This year I ran a 1:30:30 and 2:59 two weeks later. For someone who's close, it's the mental games the last few miles that may be the difference.

I would go for it. My perspective is I'd rather know I left it out there and be okay with imploding to a 3:05 - 3:08 rather than play it safe and run 3:02-3:03 and wonder what if. Whatever you choose, the marathon will still be there next year. And, as RunnerSam pointed out, if you're 34 or under, the Boston standard is down to 3:00.

Thanks guys! I'm feeling more confident in the potential for a sub 3. I'll keep training for it and hopefully all the race day variables will be favorable. In the meantime I'll keep posting and checking in on the Road Racing thread.