Kipchoge the GOAT? No. No. No. With video.

let me explain for the kids wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

Lol....and then in the races that mattered in 2012, The Olympics, Farah won double gold and Kipchoge finished 7th.....in his own team trials.

1. Kipchoge not yet in his prime in 2012.

2. 7th at Kenyan trials is harder than 7th in OG.

1. I'm aware. My response was to the dummy bragging about Kipchoge beating Farah in an unimportant indoor 2 mile in 2012.

2. That's strange because only one Kenyan finished in the top 7 in the 10000m at those OG, and he was only 5th. The other two were outside the top 10.

seasoned ranker wrote:

let me explain for the kids wrote:

1. Kipchoge not yet in his prime in 2012.

2. 7th at Kenyan trials is harder than 7th in OG.

1. I'm aware. My response was to the dummy bragging about Kipchoge beating Farah in an unimportant indoor 2 mile in 2012.

2. That's strange because only one Kenyan finished in the top 7 in the 10000m at those OG, and he was only 5th. The other two were outside the top 10.

And Kipchoge didn't make the team and missed the Olympics in 2012. Farah, on the other hand, doesn't have to do trials and gets a by into the just for being the only elite Brit distance runner. I'd wager if Farah had to go through Kenyan trials, he wouldn't have been at those Olympics either. Look how easily Eliud smoked him indoors in 2012, Eliud's worst year.

El Keniano wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

1. I'm aware. My response was to the dummy bragging about Kipchoge beating Farah in an unimportant indoor 2 mile in 2012.

2. That's strange because only one Kenyan finished in the top 7 in the 10000m at those OG, and he was only 5th. The other two were outside the top 10.

And Kipchoge didn't make the team and missed the Olympics in 2012. Farah, on the other hand, doesn't have to do trials and gets a by into the just for being the only elite Brit distance runner. I'd wager if Farah had to go through Kenyan trials, he wouldn't have been at those Olympics either. Look how easily Eliud smoked him indoors in 2012, Eliud's worst year.

He wouldn’t make the team yet he beat the best from Kenya when it mattered for like 9 years. Do you even watch the sport?

seasoned ranker wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

And Kipchoge didn't make the team and missed the Olympics in 2012. Farah, on the other hand, doesn't have to do trials and gets a by into the just for being the only elite Brit distance runner. I'd wager if Farah had to go through Kenyan trials, he wouldn't have been at those Olympics either. Look how easily Eliud smoked him indoors in 2012, Eliud's worst year.

He wouldn’t make the team yet he beat the best from Kenya when it mattered for like 9 years. Do you even watch the sport?

LMAO he do follow the sports but he hates Mo Farah with passion that is why his emotion gets the best of him whenever Mo Farah's name is mentioned .. I don't blame him tho , Mo literally forced Kenyan runners to skip tracks all together and go straight to the Marathons for 7 straight yrs

Again, on the same page here. I would be completely okay with Kip and 3 and Mo at 4. But I still won't... ;-)

Because 1) I am not a huge Farah fan due to obvious reasons many of us aren't (Alberto, "silent" doorbells etc) and 2) your point about the competition which is valid.

Bekele almost definitely had to overcome singularly better talent to win (those you mentioned) BUT you could also argue that by consistently doubling the the 5-10 Farah (through basic fatigue, volume of races) had to overcome comparatively more difficult scenarios to win than Bekele as his competition wasn't that outrageously inferior

You just have to respect how Farah put himself out on an island time and time again - taking on crews of Kenyans and Ethiopians working together towards his demise, that only ever worked out twice in a combined 12 tries (OG and WC races). It's impressive.

Also, given how we saw Bekele a little vulnerable when he couldn't complete dictate terms in races and really wind things up from 2km out, who would you be putting your money on in a 13.10-15 race with things really heating up with 500m to go (like almost every 5000m championship race)?

I'm just playing devils advocate here because as much as I dislike Farah his will to win is unmatched (golden league final Zurich 2017 anyone?) and his execution was pretty outstanding.

On the Sihine topic - I mean he was an outstanding talent and all your points are valid - basically every race he lost was to Bekele except for Helsinki 2005 when he probably had his chance at glory facing Limo and Mottram but couldn't pull it off.

Tons of respect for him, Tadese etc but just no way he approaches even Tergat at the 5th spot in terms of impact and legacy on the sport

I assume you are talking about Bekele being vulnerable in 2003/2004 5,000m? I think I've read several times his biggest regret was his tactics for the 2004 5,000m. After that race, I think he learned his lesson as when did he ever look bad in a 5,000m after that race?? (in prime years)

let me explain for the kids wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

Lol....and then in the races that mattered in 2012, The Olympics, Farah won double gold and Kipchoge finished 7th.....in his own team trials.

1. Kipchoge not yet in his prime in 2012.

2. 7th at Kenyan trials is harder than 7th in OG.

Not yet in his marathon prime but I doubt any other time in his career he could have won that race in 2003 vs El G and Bekele

Yes, good point and yes that was what was in my mind. I mean his 5000m win in Beijing was the most impressive championship 5000m performance ever and one of the all-time great distance performances (WRs included) ever seen. I guess that's why it was prefaced with "a little" because it wasn't often Bekele was vulnerable. It's also why he is the #1 on my list and nobody can convince me he isn't the best. It is fun to think of what a Bekele vs Farah championship 5000m would have been like both in their primes (Bekele 2005 and Farah 2013) Does Bekele try and run Farah into the ground? Does Farah go with him? What happens if it turns into a 1200 meter race? Sadly we will never know!

We will never know? Puh-lease...Bekele demolished Mo Farah more times than anyone can count, plus Farah's PBs are not even in the same stratosphere as Bekele. The only way a prime Bekele loses to Farah is if he has to carry Mo piggyback for the first 4600 meters and even then Mo is not a lock.

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

Yes, good point and yes that was what was in my mind. I mean his 5000m win in Beijing was the most impressive championship 5000m performance ever and one of the all-time great distance performances (WRs included) ever seen. I guess that's why it was prefaced with "a little" because it wasn't often Bekele was vulnerable. It's also why he is the #1 on my list and nobody can convince me he isn't the best. It is fun to think of what a Bekele vs Farah championship 5000m would have been like both in their primes (Bekele 2005 and Farah 2013) Does Bekele try and run Farah into the ground? Does Farah go with him? What happens if it turns into a 1200 meter race? Sadly we will never know!

VIPAM wrote:

Ngugi may not if ran fast but how can you discount 5 straight X titles when everyone (1500m - marathon ) ran the same race. Then the Olympic win was sub 13:15 when less than 5-6 people had broken 13:00. Now your history and Ngugi may not be GOAT but in any true distance fan top 5 he deserves mention!!!!

Who else had broken 13:00 in '88?

tony the tiger wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

He wouldn’t make the team yet he beat the best from Kenya when it mattered for like 9 years. Do you even watch the sport?

LMAO he do follow the sports but he hates Mo Farah with passion that is why his emotion gets the best of him whenever Mo Farah's name is mentioned .. I don't blame him tho , Mo literally forced Kenyan runners to skip tracks all together and go straight to the Marathons for 7 straight yrs

Farah already forgotten because, he never ran fast.

SteeeeV wrote:

Is this the GOAT? wrote:

In their prime

That might have been Bekele's prime....but Kipchoge's prime is now. In 2018 I'd put my money on Kipchoge against Bekele at literally every distance from 100m to marathon.

Doesn't mean Bekele's no good - 2018 Bekele is probably equivalent to the 2005 Kipchoge in that race clip you shared: Very good, but not all-time.

You are also forgetting to mention Bekele is no where near his peak form and he is also a lot older as well. Saying he's just as good at this age as an 18 year old Kipchoge is still nuts.

Think of it like this, Bekele is Michael Jordan and Kipchoge is LeBron James. This means that Bekele will always be regarded as the better runner and Kipchoge is the best at the moment but not the best ever

Bring everyone to decide the best in the world

Kipchoge vs mo vs bekele vs rupp vs kipsa g

switcher wrote:

approaching it in 2016 wrote:

Last weekend.

The Kipchoge of today would be destroyed by Bekele in his prime on the track. OTOH, I think prime Bekele would have also destroyed today's Kipchoge in the marathon.

No, Kipchoge would of destroyed Bekele at the marathon. There is no one that can match Kipchoge at the marathon. You really can't compare distances. If you watched the breaking2 video, Carl Lewis said something that a lot of people forget about. Running 10-15 seconds for the 100m, you only need to keep your posture for that short amount of time. Just like the 5k and 10k, you only need to keep that posture for 30-50 minutes. But for the marathon, you need to keep that posture for the entire time (2+ hrs) and only Kipchoge seems to keep that form for his entire run in the marathon.

Querfeldein wrote:

let me explain for the kids wrote:

Guaranteed every runner in the conversation for GOAT has taken a good hard swing at the 'thon. Tergat did. Geb did. Tadese did. Farah did. Rupp did. Bekele did. And KIPCHOGE did, doing better than any of all those track/XC/turkeytrot SIDESHOW SPECIALISTS could sniff.

1) Bekele arguably didn't try the marathon at his prime. He still came within a few seconds of the WR. Had Bekele tried the marathon a few years earlier, it's very likely that he would have broken it.

2) Every long jumper has had a go at the hundred metres. It doesn't mean we rank jumpers by their sprint times.

3) What does Rupp have to do with this conversation?

1. False. He would of probably DNF.

False. Why are you comparing different distances? Yes, Kipchoge is not that great at 5k, 10k. But is greatest marathon runner. Why do people try to compare different distances?

at 40:30 in the first video there's a weird looking fat runner from spain or whatever... anyone know who he is and why he was there?

kidding yourself wrote:

switcher wrote:

The Kipchoge of today would be destroyed by Bekele in his prime on the track. OTOH, I think prime Bekele would have also destroyed today's Kipchoge in the marathon.

No, Kipchoge would of destroyed Bekele at the marathon. There is no one that can match Kipchoge at the marathon. You really can't compare distances. If you watched the breaking2 video, Carl Lewis said something that a lot of people forget about. Running 10-15 seconds for the 100m, you only need to keep your posture for that short amount of time. Just like the 5k and 10k, you only need to keep that posture for 30-50 minutes. But for the marathon, you need to keep that posture for the entire time (2+ hrs) and only Kipchoge seems to keep that form for his entire run in the marathon.

This post did not age well. Bekele destroyed the Kipchoge myth by putting in a single good marathon cycle, rolling out of bed, and running 2s off the record with bad pacing. Kipchoge is certainly closer to his ultimate human potential than Bekele, and got there by decades of committed and smart training ; but a Bekele who committed himself in the same way would have broken 2 hours a long time ago. The difference is genetic my friend.

Steve Austin wrote:

would have

Well, it's a shame he never had the mental capacity to actually do it.