I run doubles once or twice a week and am able to get in 60-65 mpw. But even that is pushing healthy mileage for high school runners. Running twice a day, every day is way too much running for someone in high school who isn't a genetic anomaly. The only people who should be doubling every day are top collegians or professionals.
Change.My.Mind wrote:
High Schoolers and Collegiates-It’s cross country season. If you aren’t running twice a day you aren’t trying hard enough.
Change my mind.
What is the point of doubles, in your mind? Is it to increase mileage? Increase frequency? Some other reason?
Running doubles makes no sense to me if I go from running an hour a day in singles to 2 30 minute runs. Are you saying this is better?
Otherwise, your point is to increase mileage. But, to what extent? Is adding another 3 1/2 hours a week enough? How about 5 hours. Not enough, OK 7 hours? What' that, I'm still not giving 100%? Ok I'll add 10 additional hours a week. But I still have time for more...
It is almost September, starting doubles now is not going to help in the current season. If one wasn't doing this during the summer then it is too late.
Guess this means your not going to run track then.
Change.My.Mind wrote:
Lots of irrational injury fear here. Does your body magically hit reset every 24 hours? Is 12 hours not enough rest between runs?
You’re more likely to get hurt doing frequent hard interval sessions during the week. An easy 30 min wake up loop won’t ruin you. Go to bed earlier if sleep is an issue.
If injuries are a problem just run every other day and take a nap in the afternoon instead of practice.
The problem is that you are looking at it just from your own perspective. What works for you is not what works for everyone. I have been coaching 25 years and have ran in the Olympics Trials myself. Yes I did plenty of doubles to get there but there are others that couldn't do what I did and I had to realize that to be able to coach them. Each runner is different and you can't use blanket general statements like "everyone should do doubles" to make them better.
Fjfnss wrote:
Twice a day for a high schooler is a little much. Maybe a stud senior but that’s it.
Senior Year I ran doubles 3 times a week in the summer. Went to singles halfway through cross season and kind of burnt out. I think it was due to not sleeping much though.
Change.My.Mind wrote:
High Schoolers and Collegiates-It’s cross country season. If you aren’t running twice a day you aren’t trying hard enough.
Change my mind.
If you're just starting to run twice a day now, then it's too late. Your ship has sailed. The guys who were doing this over the summer are gonna crush you. They put in their aerobic base and are now about to reap the benefits of steady racing. They'll be peaking by the end of the season. If you think you're gonna reap any benefits of two-a-days during this season by starting them now, you're fooling yourself.
Maybe post this when it's July.
have fun with your midseason burnout op
Not true at all . I'm not going to change the non believers minds . And I don't want to change the mind of the OP. I am not sure what these one a day guys run but I'm willing to bet on average the two a day guys have better times. Burn out can come from lack of motivation but rarely from being in great shape. I've seen teams that barely run 30 miles a week with casts on. They were training mostly on cement. So yes not everyone is not the same or should I say not everyone can train like the best. Or with the best.
Hogwash; there is a power five program whose men's team runs 90-105 on singles. Ho do I know you ask? My son trained with this team all summer into end of August. Do a little research.
Ok I'll google power 5 teams with a son on them that trained this summer in my research. I'm sure I'll find it somewhere.
Yes, your body does magically hit a kind of reset button every 24 hours. It is called sleep, when the body folds its unfolded proteins and cleans up some of the cellular waste. You can compare being tired before bed to being refreshed in the morning. It's like magic.
I doubled and sometimes tripled in high school while typically running around 60 mile per week. I didn't have the aerobic system or the tolerance to put in 10 miles per day in singles. Plus hydration and heat become issues. Studies show running for 30-45 minutes releases natural human growth hormone. Plus you're less likely to challenge hydration if you keep it under an hour, you have more time between runs to refuel or rest, and your body temperature getting high won't be as big of a threat if you keep runs short.
If you are in high school, then I think doubles are the way to go.
My high school team ran doubles M-F. Nobody was a genetic anomaly, and we had very few injuries.
My college team never ran doubles but ran higher mileage.
Training in high school was superior, IMO.
Shoebacca wrote:
I doubled and sometimes tripled in high school while typically running around 60 mile per week. I didn't have the aerobic system or the tolerance to put in 10 miles per day in singles. Plus hydration and heat become issues. Studies show running for 30-45 minutes releases natural human growth hormone. Plus you're less likely to challenge hydration if you keep it under an hour, you have more time between runs to refuel or rest, and your body temperature getting high won't be as big of a threat if you keep runs short.
If you are in high school, then I think doubles are the way to go.
It's so easy to hit 60 mpw without doubles and with a rest day. No one needs to double until they're doing at least 80 mpw in singles.
high mileage guy wrote:
Shoebacca wrote:
I doubled and sometimes tripled in high school while typically running around 60 mile per week. I didn't have the aerobic system or the tolerance to put in 10 miles per day in singles. Plus hydration and heat become issues. Studies show running for 30-45 minutes releases natural human growth hormone. Plus you're less likely to challenge hydration if you keep it under an hour, you have more time between runs to refuel or rest, and your body temperature getting high won't be as big of a threat if you keep runs short.
If you are in high school, then I think doubles are the way to go.
It's so easy to hit 60 mpw without doubles and with a rest day. No one needs to double until they're doing at least 80 mpw in singles.
Unless it's not easy. For some 6 miles is hard but 2/4 is not. For them 2/4 is better than 0/4; maybe better than 0/5; and definitely better than 0/6 exhausted or injured.
You should really avoid doing doubles in high school, but they are fine in college. I'm currently training for xc by cross training for 40mins to an hr in the morning and then running in the afternoon. Cross training is super underrated and lowers chance of injury
Too Late wrote:
Change.My.Mind wrote:
High Schoolers and Collegiates-It’s cross country season. If you aren’t running twice a day you aren’t trying hard enough.
Change my mind.
If you're just starting to run twice a day now, then it's too late. Your ship has sailed. The guys who were doing this over the summer are gonna crush you. They put in their aerobic base and are now about to reap the benefits of steady racing. They'll be peaking by the end of the season. If you think you're gonna reap any benefits of two-a-days during this season by starting them now, you're fooling yourself.
Maybe post this when it's July.
This is archaic thinking. Many runners hit their peak within a few weeks of increasing their mileage. I did this summer. (I was training for summer track so it was ok, but an interesting learning experience). Just because they're doing base training, not intensity, doesn't magically mean they can push their peak out three months. Hard intervals are hard on the body, but so is high mileage, long runs, and doubles in the summer heat. I predict a spectacular number of runners will blast some blazing times in September and disappear by the time Conference/State rolls around.
You wouldn't know what or when PEAK is if I wrote PIKE on your forehead .
If you don't run twice a day you aren't trying. Sorry if the top teams are not posting. They are out training hard , doing two a days and focusing on academics. They don't have time. Oh and good teams and good coaches know when to have their team peak.
webby wrote:
My high school team ran doubles M-F. Nobody was a genetic anomaly, and we had very few injuries.
My college team never ran doubles but ran higher mileage.
Training in high school was superior, IMO.
Ran 75-85 mpw in HS. ran doubles and tried to average between 12-15 miles per day and finish weekly mileage in 6 days. No injuries but I did become iron deficient my senior year. 60-70 in College no injuries. then at my second collegiate team I ran about 55-60 mpw because the team as a whole was injury prone. I would have rather stuck with the HS training honestly.