Coach wants me to go WAY TOO SLOW on runs!?!

Anyone who thinks this is anything else than a troll is an idiot.

sub17hopeful wrote:

I am a rising high school senior and am one of the best runners in my state. I have a real good shot of running under 17 minutes for 5k this year. However, my coach is hurting my chances by making me go no faster than 7:00 mile pce on distance runs. I usually can run under 6:15 pace on distance runs if I give it my all, and I really want to get better and run faster on these runs. I've tried to convince my coach, but he just isn't very bright. Should I quit and run unattached? It's hard having such an incompetent coach.

Troll, Shill for the site, lonely person looking for responses. This is total bs. -infinity/-infinity

well,, wrote:

Anyone who thinks this is anything else than a troll is an idiot.

HE'S A SHILL, NOT A TROLL! Got it!?

sub17hopeful wrote:

I am a rising high school senior and am one of the best runners in my state. I have a real good shot of running under 17 minutes for 5k this year. However, my coach is hurting my chances by making me go no faster than 7:00 mile pce on distance runs. I usually can run under 6:15 pace on distance runs if I give it my all, and I really want to get better and run faster on these runs. I've tried to convince my coach, but he just isn't very bright. Should I quit and run unattached? It's hard having such an incompetent coach.

Lol. Are you the arrogant Forrest Gump of your state (maybe RI?)?

Bruhwhatareyoudoing wrote:

Buddy, your coach is right. You get the same benefits running at 7-7:30 min mile pace than 6:30s.

Uhhhhhhh, no.

well,, wrote:

why i sucked in college wrote:

More mileage at an easy pace won't lead to as much injury I believe.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=152890

Yeah, that really worked out for wejo. Had to retire prematurely becuse of injuries...

The point is that 28 min 10k jogs his easy runs.

On a different note: Was that from jogging his easy runs or doing too much volume? What if he kept the same amount intensity, but didn't run more no more than hundred miles a week and put more of a emphasis on weights and cross training? What would have been?

3200y5000 wrote:

I'm from oklahoma, which is actually about right in the middle as far as depth is concerned.

N0, we are one of the worst 5 states speed-wise

dork_rothko wrote:

Bruhwhatareyoudoing wrote:

Buddy, your coach is right. You get the same benefits running at 7-7:30 min mile pace than 6:30s.

Uhhhhhhh, no.

This isn’t too far off. 6:50 will probably bring this kid the same benefits as 7:40. 6:30 is probably dipping too close to marathon pace and aerobic threshold and would probably yeild different benefits than 7:30 pace. But that should be reserved for a workout day, not an easy day.

Bruhwhatareyoudoing wrote:

Buddy, your coach is right. You get the same benefits running at 7-7:30 min mile pace than 6:30s. Running faster on “easy” days does not make you faster or improve endurance any better. The reason why he wants you to run slower is so that you can sustain it longer. The key about easy/normal mileage is run as long as possible on a consistent basis, not faster. Running slower makes it easier for your body to recover from longer runs and helps you stay away from injury. Look up Jack Daniels easy mileage lecture on youtube, if you are not convinced.

Plus then you'll have more energy and enthusiasm for the specific 5k training that's needed to run faster.

The reason WHY you haven't broken 17 is BECAUSE you run @6:15 for your distance runs. Haven't you read 'Why I Was Slow in College'? There needs to be a delineation between "easy runs" and training runs. American distance runners focus way too much on training runs. These runs boost confidence and make you think you are capable of running a great time. Just because you can consistently run 6 min pace for 5 to 10 miles does not always translate to running sub 5 min pace for 3 to 6 miles. This is why so many collegiate runners struggle to run under 25 min for 8k and under 30 min for 10k. You can get away with it in high school and run 15:30 in a hard effort, but the only way you will ever progress is if you learn the art of the easy run. The only time you should be running faster than 7 min pace is during a long run (which should be considered a workout), mild progressive runs (start around 7 to 7:30 pace and finish under 5 min pace), or obviously during tempos/workouts.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

dork_rothko wrote:

Uhhhhhhh, no.

This isn’t too far off. 6:50 will probably bring this kid the same benefits as 7:40. 6:30 is probably dipping too close to marathon pace and aerobic threshold and would probably yeild different benefits than 7:30 pace. But that should be reserved for a workout day, not an easy day.

With all due respect, bruh's original comment is nonsense. (Yours is a little bit too...there's a world of difference between 6:50 and 7:40.) Context (easy/normal day) is actually not so meaningful here. These are really vastly different paces and so the effects will be different. For this kid, 7:30+ is easy pace, 6:50-7:15 steady pace, and 6:30-ish tempo pace. Of course, a potential 17-min 5K kid running everything at 6:30 is idiotic, but that's not what the above statements suggest.

dork_rothko wrote:

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

This isn’t too far off. 6:50 will probably bring this kid the same benefits as 7:40. 6:30 is probably dipping too close to marathon pace and aerobic threshold and would probably yeild different benefits than 7:30 pace. But that should be reserved for a workout day, not an easy day.

With all due respect, bruh's original comment is nonsense. (Yours is a little bit too...there's a world of difference between 6:50 and 7:40.) Context (easy/normal day) is actually not so meaningful here. These are really vastly different paces and so the effects will be different. For this kid, 7:30+ is easy pace, 6:50-7:15 steady pace, and 6:30-ish tempo pace. Of course, a potential 17-min 5K kid running everything at 6:30 is idiotic, but that's not what the above statements suggest.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. 7:15 isn’t really going to be fast enough to get any real benefits over an easy run of 7:30-7:45 pace for a kid who can run a 5k at 5:30 pace. And what I was saying was that, for the context of easy days, the benefits between the kid running ~7:00 pace and 7:40 pace are basically nonexistent, but running at 7:00 pace is adding unneeded stress.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

[quote]dork_rothko wrote:

[quote]ThatAverageRunner wrote:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. 7:15 isn’t really going to be fast enough to get any real benefits over an easy run of 7:30-7:45 pace for a kid who can run a 5k at 5:30 pace. And what I was saying was that, for the context of easy days, the benefits between the kid running ~7:00 pace and 7:40 pace are basically nonexistent, but running at 7:00 pace is adding unneeded stress.

Sure, I agree with the first part. On an easy day, for this kid, 7:25 or 7:55, it doesn't really matter...he should run at whatever pace feels "easy." However, take two scenarios: (1) easy day where 6:50/7:00 feels like hell and (2) easy day where it feels normal. Running 6:50/7:00 in scenario 1 is stupid and won't help anything/will almost certainly ruin everything. Running 6:50/7:00 in scenario 2 (as opposed to 7:45) *will* have benefits (eventually...assuming doing so doesn't slow him down for other runs nearby or lead to injury). I guess I'm just arguing for a running by feel approach on all but specific workout days (within reason and with some wisdom, of course--although clearly this kid/troll possesses none).

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

kid from PA wrote:

Lol yeah. You’re from PA too, right?

That is like somewhere between 300-500 here.

Yeah I’m a bit removed from actually running on a team but I coach and have a kid who’s gunning for a AA state medal, so I have the rough times for top 25 (on the state course) memorized. And 17:08 would barely be top 200 for all divisions, and That’s on our notoriously slow states course.

Lot of PA guys on this site lol. Yeah our states course is a little slow but not terribly. The fastest course out west is RWB, which is only 30-35 seconds fast? Its a lot don't get me wrong, but all the other courses out west are similar in times to the states course.

How does your coach monitor your pace on long runs? Does he run with you? Do you have a shock collar? I recommend running your long runs at a comfortable pace and running your races at 5:30 pace.

sub17hopeful wrote:

I am a rising high school senior and am one of the best runners in my state. I have a real good shot of running under 17 minutes for 5k this year. However, my coach is hurting my chances by making me go no faster than 7:00 mile pce on distance runs. I usually can run under 6:15 pace on distance runs if I give it my all, and I really want to get better and run faster on these runs. I've tried to convince my coach, but he just isn't very bright. Should I quit and run unattached? It's hard having such an incompetent coach.

Yes you should quit. You are wasting your coaches time, time which could be spent improving others and it will free up the time you are spending here moaning about it to actually learn about training.

Adios!

Your coach is spot on, your long runs should be about 7:10, through in some vo2 max at 5:30, and some short intervals at 5:00.

I'm also a high school runner and can run under 17. I take my easy runs at 7:10 at the fastest and have been consistently doing much better than my friends who have been doing their easy runs sub 7 minute miles. I'd listen to your coach and if you doubt him go to him and ask his reasoning behind why he is doing it. If he can't give any reasons then it might be time to find a new coach.

I ran 15:51 and my easy runs were no faster than 7:10 mile pace.