Third Kenyan runner in 10 days fails doping test

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

Not Mr Obvious wrote:

So Anti Doping Kenya sends it's blood tests to Bloemfontein, which lacks WADA accreditation.

It looks like Moen is being target tested like Rupp, Ritz and Jager. I wonder why?

Yep...you're right - South Africa lost it's accreditation in 2016 and they're not even listed on WADA's general list of anti-doping labs:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/36200814https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/laboratories/list-of-wada-accredited-laboratories

Looks like they have special permission to do the blood tests that count for the ABP though

DHT123 wrote:

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

Yep...you're right - South Africa lost it's accreditation in 2016 and they're not even listed on WADA's general list of anti-doping labs:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/36200814https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/laboratories/list-of-wada-accredited-laboratories

Looks like they have special permission to do the blood tests that count for the ABP though

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/what-we-do/science-medical/laboratories/approved-laboratories

Right...that's correct, but what exactly does a WADA-accredited lab actually mean? IOW, what are the ramifications of a lab not being accredited? If it's no big deal to not have a lab accredited to perform blood tests for the ABP, then why are all the other dozen or so labs accredited? Grant money perhaps?

Any lab techs out there to chime in on this one?

What's up with this? wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

How you can see, in Nederland they use different setting for Hg. The Hg of Ronald was 11.3, that in the normal system is about 18.6, and his Hct was about 53.

At the end of the investigation, the doctor suggested to take Vit E or Vit C, Omega 3 and Mg in hot water.

This was what the doctor suggested, but I told him to take only Mg in hot water, for avoiding some cramp he had in his hamstrings. Few days later, he had the stress fracture in the 3rd part of the left tibia, that lasted for almost one year (he is again in training from one month only).

Before accusing somebody to be a liar, is better you can know all the reality and think two times before defaming people.

A "53 Hct" at sea-level? What's up with that?

Something isn't right with these figures.

Yes, interesting. If they stopped testing for drugs many elites would be on Nandrolone tomorrow as part if a cocktail. Reports indicate that Nandrolone significantly improves leg strength and quad bulk. People know that something like this is the magic potion in these supplements, it's just a lame ar$e excuse for trying to cheat, they should be treated as such.

This guy was caught on Nandrolone

Hi Renato,

I was the poster asking you for the information about Sondre Moen's testing, and like in a previous thread, I would say a big thanks to you for being transparent to post this on the forum. I'd also say that I have learnt more about the testing procedures from your posts than I have from reading anything else about this subject. That's a bit crazy when we talk about encouraging transparency about how the whole testing process works. For example, that OOC blood testing now takes place to this extent in Kenya/Ethiopia (due to the cost and logistical difficulties in getting samples to labs within the required timescales). Just on thing though - on the previous thread you said that you would be publishing (i.e. publically, not just on this forum) Sondre's testing pre- Fukuoka (which also included blood values), which means that other people would be able to scrutinise them - are you still intending on doing that? Also, why was Sondre not blood tested at all in Kenya last year, but now has been regularly tested? Is that just because of his results and new status? It certainly looks like he has been extensively 'target tested' this year.

I'd also challenge the idea that all 'top Kenyans' are regularly blood tested - accepting that this could be just due to the sheer volume of quality runners to try and keep track of. For example, Joyciline Jepkosgei, when she set the world record last year in the half-marathon, had never been blood tested OOC, and was not part of any anti-doping test pools. (

)

I assume this has changed now, but this was only last year.

Finally, we have also forgotten one more top Kenyan banned for doping in our discussions, Emily Chebet:

confirmed.

People are asking the question: is Norway Europe's Kenya? Testing those three brothers, you could have three positives in 10 seconds let alone 10 days!

What does Coevett think? He can spot a doper a mile away.

Better rename the thread.

Kipyegon Bett (bronze medalist 800m 2017 world champs) has been popped. “Refusing or failing to submit to Sample collection, contrary to Article 2.3

Provisionally suspended from athletics.”

DHT123 wrote:

Better rename the thread.

Kipyegon Bett (bronze medalist 800m 2017 world champs) has been popped. “Refusing or failing to submit to Sample collection, contrary to Article 2.3

Provisionally suspended from athletics.”

This is getting ridiculous. Apparently failed to submit a sample. I always liked Kipyegon Bett. Someone needs to do something and ADAK needs to give more details. I'm taking a break, can't stand this anymore. ?

Maybe he refused to open the door.

El Keniano wrote:

DHT123 wrote:

Better rename the thread.

Kipyegon Bett (bronze medalist 800m 2017 world champs) has been popped. “Refusing or failing to submit to Sample collection, contrary to Article 2.3

Provisionally suspended from athletics.”

This is getting ridiculous. Apparently failed to submit a sample. I always liked Kipyegon Bett. Someone needs to do something and ADAK needs to give more details. I'm taking a break, can't stand this anymore. ?

Not to worry, He is very young. No Kenyan over 20 would dope. Just a mistake of youth. Not a lot of doping going on over there.

…….In fact he didn't even dope. Just a little youthful defiance. He didn't want to get framed like Kiprop. There is no big doping in Kenya.

When you are not an athlete of international level, the only authority going to test you OOC (and not for many times in one year) is the National antidoping agency.

At the end of 2016, Sondre Moen had a PB of 2:12:54 in 2015, that gave him position 325 in the World. In a similar situation, WADA and IAAF are not interested to do blood tests, and this is what many posters don't understand when we speak about Kenyan athletes for 2:08 who are caught doped in competition : NEVER these athletes can be tested OOC in Kenya, because in the same position there are maybe more than 300 athletes, and there is not budget enough for testing (maybe with a minimum of 3-4 times) all these athletes. If you want to test OOC all the Kenyan athletes of international level (out of top 30 who are in the whereabouts system) for a significative number of times every year, you can have more than 1200 tests only for second level athletes, with a cost of about 800,000 USD (that of course nobody has).

So, for these athletes there is no way of any prevention, apart giving them a different education about ethic and physiological point of view, and, if somebody wants to dope, the only opportunity comes in the antidoping tests IN COMPETITION.

Why Sondre is tested more than Galen Rupp ? If you go to see in 2018 the list of all his tests, you can see how the testing authorities frequently are different : IAAF-AIU (we can read this as WADA), ADAK or National Agency.

Normally, IAAF-AIU doesn't go to test athletes in their Country : for that goal the authority is the National Antidoping Agency. But, when some athlete in the whereabouts system trains abroad, the IAAF-AIU can work on international level for testing athletes of every Country, training in different parts of the World.

IAAF-AIU can be considered as the Interpol Police : in one Country there is the local Police, but if an American gangster escapes in Germany or in any Country with the same agreement, he can be wanted by Interpol, and his crimes are evaluated under the law of his Country.

The main reason that pushed WADA to consider Kenya a Country not compliant was exactly this one : the Kenyan Government never gave any economical support for the domestic antidoping tests, and for the Kenyan in the whereabouts system (between 130 and 150 depending on the year, which is the HIGHEST number of athletes in the World for one single Country) ALL THE COST of the test was at charge of WADA, with a clear unfair situation compared with what happens in other Countries.

But to say there were no tests is something deeply wrong, because ALL THE TOP were tested OOC more than 4 times in one season, of course with too high cost for WADA. To declare Kenyan NOT COMPLIANT and risking the Olympic Ban was the only way to put Kenyan Government in a corner, finally obliging it to giver a right contribute for the tests in Kenya.

About the athletes, normally, when an athlete "explodes" with something nobody could previously foresee, all the antidoping agency put him under a special lens, increasing the number of tests in order to become more sure he is clean. If after 2-3 years all his tests are very comfortable, and there is no suspicion that he can use something illegal, step by step the number of tests becomes smaller, and 3-4 tests per year can be enough for controlling his behavior.

Another thing : there is no coordination among the different antidoping Agency. During WCh 2005 in Helsinki, I remember what happened to Dorcus Inzikuru, an Ugandan athlete training with me, who became the winner of the first edition of 3000m steeple for women. In the same day, she was tested WITH BLOOD in 3 different times (one from WADA, one from IAAF and one from the National Antidoping Agency of Finland), clearly not coordinated one with the other. She came to me crying, telling "they continue to take my blood, what can I do in competition", and I tried to cancel her anxiety saying " when you lose blood, your body reacts producing new cells that increase the total volume of blood. You have the final after one week, so you can run in your best shape !".

This is the reason because there are several tests, with top athletes training abroad (in the case of Sondre, 5 tests abroad and 3 tests at home).

Instead, due to a quick increase in their performances, it's true that sometimes we have top athletes never tested before.

The case of Joyciline Jepkosgei is emblematic : at the end of 2016 she was n. 41 in the world and n. 24 in Kenya with 1:09:07, so out of every whereabouts system, coming from giving birth to her baby at the end of 2015. She worked very hard during the winter, and in few months lost 8 kg and was able to run in February in 1:06:07. But the time for putting some new athlete in the whereabout system is about 3 months long, and on 1st of April she was not yet in the system.

Immediately after her WR, she was included in the system, and had several tests before her second WR in Valencia.

I have the same problem with Eric Kiptanui, who ran 58'42" in Berlin, without being an athlete of international interest before. She had a best performance of 3'37"73 in 1500 in 2016, when I spoke with him for having some good athlete able training with Ronald Kwemoi. When last year Ronald had the stress fracture during the Monaco DL, Eric had to look at something for himself, and I put him in a training for longer distances, discovering specific attitudes for those events.

He ran the best seasonal performance in HM in Berlin, without any previous test in his life. The management immediately asked IAAF to put him in the whereabout system, and till now he was already tested OOC in Kenya several times.

At the end, the main fault for Kenyan runners is to be TOO MANY and TOO STRONG for being tested in high percentage, looking at how many competition they run every year and at how many times they win. But this is a problem nobody can solve, looking at the cost of every test, if there is not a very deep education under ethic, methodological and physiological point of view.

The Hct of Ronald is 53 in altitude. His test in Nederland was carried out 4 hours after arriving Amsterdam, directly from Nairobi, and in the first 48 hours there are not differences from the values in altitude.

However, this is a parameter out of average, and probably is one of the reason of his talent.

But, basing on my experience, a high Hct doesn't mean automatically we have a "freak of nature", because I had, also in Italy, some athlete well over 50 (for example, the marathon runner Massimo Magnani, 2:11:05 PB, who was the Technical Director from 2013 till 2016 in Italy, or Genny Di Napoli, current Italian Record Holder of 1500m in 1990 with 3'32"78, who had a normal Hct of 52 and 18,5 Hb, and when had 17,5 was in anaemia…), and at the same time top champions, like Christopher Koskei (WCh in steeple 1999) who won with Hct of 39,8. I already explained several times that Gelindo Bordin won OG 1988 in Marathon with 12.7 of Hb and 39.7 Hct, clearly demonstrating that there are more situations at the base of any performance, some of them balancing the fact of a low Hct.

I don't have specific investigations, but am sure that, in the cases of Koskei and Bordin, if they had higher Hct probably could not be able to win WCh and Olympics.

Renato Canova wrote:

If you want to test OOC all the Kenyan athletes of international level (out of top 30 who are in the whereabouts system) for a significative number of times every year, you can have more than 1200 tests only for second level athletes, with a cost of about 800,000 USD (that of course nobody has).

Thank you for your time and effort to post, Renato.

800,000 USD per year doesn't sound like very much. There are, what, maybe a hundred countries in the world with developed track and field programs? They would each need to donate $8,000 per year to cover the cost. Surely athletic federations around the world would be interested in donating money to catch dopers in other countries, right?

Or you could get the money from a large number of top competitions, any event with more than $10,000 in prize money needs to give $1000 or 10% of the total prize money or whatever to global anti doping efforts.

Of course this only accounts for the Kenyan athletes by Renato's estimation, but they make up a significant fraction of the runners in the world.

Anyhow, it's hard to imagine that money is the major barrier here if we're only talking about a couple million a year. Nike alone could put up that kind of cash if they wanted to.

Again, thanks for the contribution Renato. This is the kind of debate and discussion that we should be having! Totally agree that it is tricky and expensive to deal with 'new' runners given the depth of the talent, but it doesn't help with people's suspicions when 'unknowns' without any OOC testing history come and win big races (see Dubai Marathon).

Why not publish all the test results though? At the very least, why don't the AIU publish all the test dates for the athletes, to avoid so much speculation? (I think the blood values should also be published too and don't see why they shouldn't be)

I find all this very interesting.

Please continue!