Well that didn't take long: Asbel Kiprop gives up fight to prove innocence - Says he doesn't have resources to fight IAAF

Intelligent Person` wrote:

One thing I disagree with Kiprop about is this:

"I don’t regret telling Rita to carry her own cross. But I did not dope. But he (Rosa) has abandoned me."

Seriously?

He threw Jeptoo under the bus, but wants people to support him - which is totally hypocritical.

The organizations who make the accusations should be paying the expenses for athletes to defend themselves.

They're not accusations, he's been found guilty.

LOL. You are just rumour mongering. There is no more evidence that Coe blood doped than anyone else during that or any other era. Not sure what your nationality is, but anyone in the UK would know that the likelihood of someone like Coe, an ex MP (not exactly known for their popularity) with a high public profile, being able to get to where he has, supported by many of his peers, without a shred of evidence or any individual coming forward with evidence he doped, is highly unlikely. No, not impossible, but very unlikely after almost 40 years.

It makes me laugh when anonymous posters on here state as facts that it was well known his steroid of choice at Loughborough was 'this' or he went to this country for' that'. For a start, no one taking illegal steroids is going to engage in a discussion with Uni pals about why they prefer one steroid over another! Secondly, the lure of big money for selling such stories to newspapers would surely have enticed at least one person to come forward!

If he doped, there must be influential people in the sport who know about it. After all the corruption with Diack, does anyone really think that the IAAF would allow someone to stay in place and lead an organisation plagued with problems involving doping, if there was even the slightest chance he could be outed as a doper himself? Before 2015 maybe, but now in this current climate? It would be far too risky for the future of a sport already on its knees.

The likes of Foster, Bedford, Dick Pound at WADA and many others have all gone on record to state he is the right man for the job; i.e. tackling the drug problem in T&F. And thus far, he has been true to his word and has already gone a long way to put things in place which will help the sport. Do you think Kiprop would have been busted under Diack? Of course not. Has anyone on this thread or any similar ones mentioned that the IAAF under Coe is making progress with rooting out dopers? No, of course not! Why not? Because by and large people are biased, prefer to criticise and find fault with others rather than praise, and also due to political persuasion.

I'm not saying Coe is an angel. Yes, he had an extra marital affair, which was uncovered by the press. But so too did Cram, and I would think the vast majority of elite athletes have cheated on a partner at some point. Does that make Cram equally as likely to have doped? I don't think so, but too many on here are happy to be hypocritical.

Yes, Coe may have had some conflicts of interests in the past, e.g with Nike, which he declared, and yes, he may well have known something of the claims that Russian athletes were being bribed. But it seems obvious to me that had he gone public with such information when merely VP, not only would it be denied, attempted to be covered up, but it would probably end any hope of him becoming President. That would likely result in someone else taking over who could easily maintain the status quo. Better to play the long game and do something about it when in a position (IAAF President) to do so. Sometimes the ends justifies the means.

I really don't believe that there was a tradition of middle distance male athletes doping in the 70's and 80's. If that were the case, it does not explain why the Eastern block male sprinters and throwers, and all their women, were able to dominate, but their middle distance men were not.

We had East European women running 800's regularly in the 1:53- 1:57 range, and the 3:52 - 3:58 range for 1500m. The UK and US women were not able to approach those sort of times. 2:00 and 4:02, were about the limit. There was a vast difference between East European and West European women. The most obvious reason for this was the state doping programmes in place behind the Iron Curtain. Interestingly, the only athletes that could compete on a level playing field was the likes of Ashford in the sprints. I'd like to think that this was because she had a superior natural ability, and it was enough to compete and sometimes beat the likes of Gohr, Koch and Wockel. If Western women were also doping, then why were they so far inferior across the board? It is much more likely that the majority of western women weren't doping, which would also imply the men, at least in middle distances, weren't either.

The GDR and USSR knew the effects of steroids on women were beneficial in all events. But even then, the effects were more noticeable in power events, e.g sprints and throws. No doubt they experimented with drug use in all the men's events, but it seems to me that the conclusion was, the benefits for middle distance were minimal.

If Russian men were taking steroids and blood doping, why did not a single Russian man break 1:45.0 for 800m between 1971 and 1983, this so called period of widespread doping? During that same period only 7 Russian men broke 1:46.0! It wasn't until 1984 that they had the first man to break 1:45, Matveyev- 1:44.25, and that year they had 3 others break 1:46.0. In 1985 they had 6 men under 1:46, the fastest only 1:44.93 (Zemlyanski) however.

Are we to believe that the world's biggest nation, with state sponsored doping and probably the most powerful athletic nation, could only produce at best, a 1:45 runner? Does that suggest that these doped up 1/2 milers were actually only capable of 1:47/1:48 clean? The situation is very similar over 1500m too.

The only other possible reasons behind such lack of ability and depth, are: -

1) The Russians doped in all events apart from the 800m, hence this was the only area where they were weak. While the Brits and others doped only in the 800m, making them superior to the non-doped Russians, and not in all other events where they were inferior to the Russians.

2) They (the USSR) realised that steroids and blood doping had negligible impact on men's 800m running. If these were the findings and reality for the sophisticated, state sponsored doping machine that was the USSR in the 70's and early 80's, then it would have been the finding and the reality elsewhere in the world. Hence those running 1:41 - 1:43 were clearly superior athletes to the Russians. Which supports the idea at the time that the 800m was the one of the events where drugs were not an issue.

These are all just your assumptions.

EPO was legal in the mid 90's but it appears the best British middle-distance runners didn't go on it. Maybe the odd b-level runner like RekRunner I mean Paula's husband, but none of the many super talented juniors we were still producing at the end of the 80s.

Drug testing proper was introduced a few years ago in the UFC, and it was obvious immediately who had been doping and who had been clean. One of the obviously cleanest fighters was Michael Bisping, a Brit. The UFC/MMA is a brutal sport where the object is to damage your opponent. It also has a lot more money in it than distance running, and especially middle-distance running in the 80s. The idea that EVERYBODY dopes is as extreme as the idea that nobody does. And the truth is if you really think that Third World cultures are no more likely to produce dopers than First World cultures, you really are a deluded SJW with your head up your back door.

As far as Coe is concerned, I see nothing in his tenure as IAAF chief that suggest he is soft in doping. You'd literaly soil your pants if you were faced with the task of banning Putin's Russia as a Brit.

trollism wrote:

Intelligent Person` wrote:

One thing I disagree with Kiprop about is this:

Seriously?

He threw Jeptoo under the bus, but wants people to support him - which is totally hypocritical.

The organizations who make the accusations should be paying the expenses for athletes to defend themselves.

They're not accusations, he's been found guilty.

Yeah these people are idiots. Countless athletes have come up with excuses as to why they tested positive and got away with it. Kiprop has NO EXCUSE and hence no legal team wants to touch him with a barge pole. He has no explanation at all.

Do people here really think Shawn Barber paid $60k to tell the IAAF he slept with a coked up prostitute?

Or that a poor Indian intersex girl paid $60k to ask CAS to not ban her for high testosterone?

Or Ajee Wilson paid $60k to tell the IAAF she ate tainted beef?

It's bullshit. Kiprop could get away with this if he had some actual excuse. But he doesn't. He just took EPO and knows it and it making a song and dance about it. He's far more successful and therefore rich than the other athletes I can think of that challenged the IAAF.

PLENTY of criminals swear they are innocent long after they have been put behind bars, but they did the crime.

Can we get a list of Rosa associated athletes that have been busted?

Or how about a list of the 10 most prominent athletes busted in Kenya and their agents?

Rosa needs jail time. Too much bullshit coming from one manager!

Wow. Are you seriously claiming with a straight face, in this thread about drug cheat Kiprop, that male mid distance runners don't benefit from doping?

That's rekrunner-like level of trolling.

Coo story, bro.

rojo wrote:

Can we get a list of Rosa associated athletes that have been busted?

Or how about a list of the 10 most prominent athletes busted in Kenya and their agents?

And what about the coaches of athletes of who have been busted? Is it possible that coaches cannot at least suspect their athlete's when they are taking peds?

The coach of Kiprop is David Letting. He is also the long-time coach of the Kenyan xcountry team. Shouldn't he also be under suspicion?

casual obsever wrote:

Wow. Are you seriously claiming with a straight face, in this thread about drug cheat Kiprop, that male mid distance runners don't benefit from doping?

That's rekrunner-like level of trolling.

Coo story, bro.

No, you are an idiot who clearly has poor comprehension skills. And you are being purposely obtuse and contrary because you have no valid argument to offer. You know full well that I have stated on numerous occasions that EPO and drugs do help middle distance athletes. I am not stating what Canova believes.

I am claiming that ped use in the 1970's and 80's was not as widespread as some on here would like us to believe. I clearly stated that the general thinking AT THE TIME (i.e in the mid 70's, early 80's) was that steroids were not of use to 800m runners. That is not the same as stating that middle distance runners don't benefit from doping. See the difference?

It is NOW 2018, and we have several decades of cases, convicted dopers and numerous scientific papers and testing that proves that they do. I even used the evidence of Russian men during this period not being able to break 1:45 and barely 1:46 (while their women were running sub 1:55) to support the case that middle distance men were likely not to be using drugs during this period. If drug use during the 70's and 80's was truly rampant (as the poster I responded to claimed), then why was the largest, most powerful athletic nation of the period, and the world's leading experts in peds, not able to produce a single runner between 1971 and 1983, that could break 1:45? Indeed, only 7 men who broke 1:46 in 13 seasons; and only 1 athlete per year from 71 to 82.

Yet they can produce a 1:42 runner at age 20, right at the end of the EPO era! Clearly there were big changes in ped development between 1983 and 2001. What a surprise! First the emergence of EPO in the early 90's, which obviously is more beneficial for long distance runners, but also has some benefit at 8 & 15. It's also likely that since 83, there has been numerous more drugs available and more testing/trialling of various combinations to discern what best helps athletes at different events.

If you can't follow a quite clear and obvious narrative, then I can't help you. You clearly have nothing to offer in backing up sweeping generalisations. Instead you try to sidetrack the issue altogether by ridiculing something I never even wrote.

Well done!

Bad Wigins wrote:

Tell It Like It Is wrote:

There are only 3 guys who ever ran sub-3:27 in the history of the sport; EL G, Lagat & Kiprop. We have a confirmed case with Kiprop, Lagat had an "A" sample rocket fuel positive but unconfirmed "B" sample, so "officially" he's not a positive and EL G comes from one of biggest doping cultures in the history of the athletics. All smells like doping supermen to me. ?

You forgot 3:25 synthetic-converted legend Jim Ryun whose career peaked in the era before in-competition testing, when you could scarf all the bennies you wanted.

Oh wait, I forgot, teens didn't do drugs in the 60's, did they. Sorry, Ryun fans. My bad.

You SJW idiots are hilarious. Or maybe Wigins is just another hasbarat, which means he's carrying the torch for the agenda. He has to roll some white guy, in this case Ryun, into the mess in a clumsy effort to deflect. Because he genuflects at the altar of Political Correctness. Like all cowards.

Amphetamines aren't going to help you beyond 400m lol. That's been known for a very long time.

You cowards are completely brainwashed into the white = bad, everyone else is good mindset. And not a one, not a single one of you is smart enough to ask just who has trained you to think this way. You think this way while no one else does. LOL

Wigins always demonstrated cowardice, ignorance, and his desire to always want to fit in with the PC crowd. But that's typical of those who lack the ability to question anything they're ordered to believe. LOL

Go back to slurping the sacks of your marxist master Wigins. They'll keep teaching you what and how to think while you do it.

Distance runners in the 60s weren't on speed. lol Any who tried that received some nasty surprises.

Coevett wrote:

rojo wrote:

Can we get a list of Rosa associated athletes that have been busted?

Or how about a list of the 10 most prominent athletes busted in Kenya and their agents?

And what about the coaches of athletes of who have been busted? Is it possible that coaches cannot at least suspect their athlete's when they are taking peds?

The coach of Kiprop is David Letting. He is also the long-time coach of the Kenyan xcountry team. Shouldn't he also be under suspicion?

Ignore all the weak whytes defending the cheats. It's brainwashed sheeple like them who have allowed the West to sink so far. Now that things are starting to turn, they'll be falling by the wayside in many ways. They won't understand what I mean, but I'm sure you do.

Oh -- I thought you were familiar with the 1500m all time list, like you've already checked it out 1,000 times.

"casual obsever" seems to think it's time for me to go home, devastated. It hardly seems like arguing about something that "could have been" should send me home devastated. In the world of rekrunner, assuming facts not in evidence is called a "leap of faith". It's not about me trusting the words of Kiprop, or giving him the benefit of the doubt. If I trusted Kiprop implicitly, I'd be pushing the angle of sample tampering, or contamination. "casual obsever" said "very few at the top". He didn't say "because he's the *3rd* fastest" of all time. You are moving his goalposts. Including Kiprop, it is still "very few". In any case, if the case of the examples of the marathon women, with #2, #3, and #27 did not persuade me about achieving some critical mass at the top, why would the examples of #3 and #16 for the men's 1500m? I thought Ramzi's 3:29.14 was a high quality time -- fast enough to be counted "at the top" in my performance thread. I did note that his "gold medal" times were much slower.

I counted one logical fallacy, and two leaps of faith. Nice job. Well done. Now that your job is done, time for you to go home. More facts about Kiprop. He got slower in 2016, and completely bombed in Rio, in a race that had the slowest winning time since 1932. He got even slower in 2017. Could these be examples of some of the WORST years in his professional career?

casual obsever wrote:

Nicely explained why rekrunner goes home devestated. My job here is done.

One more thing, before rekrunner complains about me not mentioning all the fact:

Kiprop was in great shape early 2016, i.e. when he appeared on IAAF's likely doping list, winning a couple of races easily while toying with the competition.

Then came the Rosa bust, and he ran poorly by his standards for a while.

2017 season ends, break, then he gets popped during the base phase with EPO - so we don't know in what shape he was during that doping period.

You guys need some privacy? You've got something on your nose. You should wipe that off. Is "plethora" a synonym for "half"? I "should have went home"? Note, I am actually at home at the moment.

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Nicely explained why rekrunner goes home devestated. My job here is done.

And your job is done very well. You're very well researched and provide a plethora of insightful information. Subway's very knowledgeable also - I look foward to both of your daily posts on these doping issues.

And rekrunner should have went home devastated a long time ago - I admire the patience you have for him.

No. I would never call myself an elite athlete.

Oh, how times have changed.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3056133

Remember this thread?

I know this is a tangent, but Russia and Germany (big steroid/PED users) had some very, very good middle distance athletes during that period, as I have pointed out to you before.

They had athletes that beat/mixed with Coe and Ovett in competition, but didn't run on the circuits so much.

1978 European champs Olaf Beyer of West Germany won the 800m over Coe and Ovett running 1:43.8

1980 Olympics Jürgen Strauss of East Germany took Silver behind Coe and ahead of Ovett in the 1500m

Nikolai Kirov of Soviet Union took bronze in the 800m narrowly losing out to Ovett.

Hans Peter Ferner of West Germany won gold in the European Athletics champs 1982 over Coe.

Ovett narrowly beat Kirov in the 1500m

1981 World Cup East Germans took bronze in the 800m and 1500m won by Coe and Cram.

To say that the Germans and Soviets weren't right up there in the men's middle distance events during that period is just false, and I'm not sure why you keep saying it.

it doesn't matter because soon the truth will come out... right?