Why is Vanderbilt so noncompetitive?

Track Blazer wrote:

Just saw this thread. Stunned that soooo many "experts" on here trashing Vandy and Steve Keith yet not one of you is aware or bothered to mention that Keith had Vandy as a power just a short while back and then WHAM he was hit with some serious and I mean serious health issues involving cancer. Nearly died. Yes Rhonda Riley did a great job recruiting and helping him and deserves some of the credit but reality is the fall off is simply Keith having to battle back in the wake of this health battle. I have known him for decades and he will be back amongst the best in the SEC and at nationals soon enough. Nashville is one of the better cities in the South to train weather-wise and its far more progressive than Fayetteville, Tuscalooser, Baton Rouge, Gainesville or Starkville.

Vandy has to recruit differently and unlike Stanford, once you are is when the challenge really begins. The school integrated their athletic department into normal university academic admin so that means no short cuts nor getting away with anything because the admin isn't paying attention. I have had many Vandy grads in my family and of close friends and its not easy to train at high level with stress of serious academic classes. Where are the Ivy League bashers? Its same story at Vandy with added challenge of being in the heart of South where everyone in high school trash Vandy for their mediocrity because too many judge a school by its football success. Vandy has had a fairly strong past decade of football in comparison to prior decades and school is committed to improved athletics. Basketball has always been high priority and they just signed a top 10 class. Baseball is power too.

So lets trash the programs that deserve trashing because the coaches are healthy and have big well-paid staffs and perfect training environments and yet still can't qualify people to NCAA's and barely any to Regionals. Could name 2 or 3 of them....

Steamboat 4 miler wrote:

Track Blazer wrote:

Just saw this thread. Stunned that soooo many "experts" on here trashing Vandy and Steve Keith yet not one of you is aware or bothered to mention that Keith had Vandy as a power just a short while back and then WHAM he was hit with some serious and I mean serious health issues involving cancer. Nearly died. Yes Rhonda Riley did a great job recruiting and helping him and deserves some of the credit but reality is the fall off is simply Keith having to battle back in the wake of this health battle. I have known him for decades and he will be back amongst the best in the SEC and at nationals soon enough. Nashville is one of the better cities in the South to train weather-wise and its far more progressive than Fayetteville, Tuscalooser, Baton Rouge, Gainesville or Starkville.

Vandy has to recruit differently and unlike Stanford, once you are is when the challenge really begins. The school integrated their athletic department into normal university academic admin so that means no short cuts nor getting away with anything because the admin isn't paying attention. I have had many Vandy grads in my family and of close friends and its not easy to train at high level with stress of serious academic classes. Where are the Ivy League bashers? Its same story at Vandy with added challenge of being in the heart of South where everyone in high school trash Vandy for their mediocrity because too many judge a school by its football success. Vandy has had a fairly strong past decade of football in comparison to prior decades and school is committed to improved athletics. Basketball has always been high priority and they just signed a top 10 class. Baseball is power too.

So lets trash the programs that deserve trashing because the coaches are healthy and have big well-paid staffs and perfect training environments and yet still can't qualify people to NCAA's and barely any to Regionals. Could name 2 or 3 of them....

Has nothing to do with the point being made by many. No one said anything "personal" about him, just his recruiting methods.

How long has he dealt with Cancer? Exactly. I take Cancer quite seriously, I have it!!! But, I don't use it as an excuse.

Wow, funny how you have the "right" to rip Fayetteville, Tuscalooser, Baton Rouge, Gainesville and Starkville and decide which one is more progressive.

Sounds like you know him TOO well and have a bias on his recruiting before he even had Cancer. Sounds like you had many people (family) accepted in the program which obviously helps one to get in if they have family alumni. I know this as a fact. Of course, no one can right, but you.

This thread has nothing to do with who does or doesn't trash Vanderbilt because of football. Do try to stay on topic.

Alberto Salazar almost died. Ever hear about it? 14 minutes? Well, what does that have to do with the things he's accused of? Nothing.

Now comes the part where everyone on this thread knows nothing and you (Vanderbilt Alumni perhaps?) tell everyone that they know nothing.

Track Blazer wrote:

Just saw this thread. Stunned that soooo many "experts" on here trashing Vandy and Steve Keith yet not one of you is aware or bothered to mention that Keith had Vandy as a power just a short while back and then WHAM he was hit with some serious and I mean serious health issues involving cancer. Nearly died. Yes Rhonda Riley did a great job recruiting and helping him and deserves some of the credit but reality is the fall off is simply Keith having to battle back in the wake of this health battle. I have known him for decades and he will be back amongst the best in the SEC and at nationals soon enough. Nashville is one of the better cities in the South to train weather-wise and its far more progressive than Fayetteville, Tuscalooser, Baton Rouge, Gainesville or Starkville.

Vandy has to recruit differently and unlike Stanford, once you are is when the challenge really begins. The school integrated their athletic department into normal university academic admin so that means no short cuts nor getting away with anything because the admin isn't paying attention. I have had many Vandy grads in my family and of close friends and its not easy to train at high level with stress of serious academic classes. Where are the Ivy League bashers? Its same story at Vandy with added challenge of being in the heart of South where everyone in high school trash Vandy for their mediocrity because too many judge a school by its football success. Vandy has had a fairly strong past decade of football in comparison to prior decades and school is committed to improved athletics. Basketball has always been high priority and they just signed a top 10 class. Baseball is power too.

So lets trash the programs that deserve trashing because the coaches are healthy and have big well-paid staffs and perfect training environments and yet still can't qualify people to NCAA's and barely any to Regionals. Could name 2 or 3 of them....

yep, nailed it indeed wrote:

In the clouds wrote:

I think someone nailed it when they said Keith is just too picky. Last year my kid got nice offers from the ACC and Big Ten, but Vandy wanted her to walk on. Their final recruits fell short of what they said the were signing. Or I guess what they thought they were recruiting but not able to land. This year is also marginal. I guess when you lose your all star recruiter it hurts.

Yep, he'd deny it, but he is too picky indeed. It'll bite him hard in the butt one year. He wants guys and gals under certain times, if not, forget it as you're not even going to be a walk-on.

Then look at what they run during the season and it doesn't fit. Seriously, look at their pr's coming in and then what they do during the season.

It's his call, but personally I don't think he's as good as he appears to think he is. Ever hear of developing decent runners versus only wanting phenoms who may or may not pan out?

The most awkwardist hand holder in the whole wide world wrote:

yep, nailed it indeed wrote:

Yep, he'd deny it, but he is too picky indeed. It'll bite him hard in the butt one year. He wants guys and gals under certain times, if not, forget it as you're not even going to be a walk-on.

Then look at what they run during the season and it doesn't fit. Seriously, look at their pr's coming in and then what they do during the season.

It's his call, but personally I don't think he's as good as he appears to think he is. Ever hear of developing decent runners versus only wanting phenoms who may or may not pan out?

OK...so let me get this straight. Are all you butt hurt dads with 2:12/5:00/10:45 daughters complaining that Vanderbilt didn't let your girl walk on after they got in? Or get admissions assistance for a recruited walk-on roster spot? Or that your girl should have been recruited hard & gotten a big 'ole scholarship for your little princess' 5:00 mile? Because a 2:12/5:00/10:45 girl is worth $0.00 in the SEC. Sure it might win you some local races & even a state championship in a backwater area like SEC country...but that girl isn't worth a dime to a Power 5 school. Can that girl develop into that caliber of athlete? Sure! But she sure as hell doesn't deserve $$$ until she does. Now maybe I'm wrong & Vandy told your 5 minute miler to piss off...but I highly doubt that. Tell me if I'm wrong & they wouldn't even respond to your 10:45 sweet heart. Maybe your 2:12 darling got into Vanderbilt independently & they told her they were too good for her. Maybe your Tennessee state XC champ was told to do better next time if she wanted them to let her walk on to the team. If that's the case, sure, keep sh!tting all over them being too selective for their level...but if you dads are all just sour that Vanderbilt didn't make it rain on your perfect little angel, then have fun at Lipscomb, Austin Peay, Bradley, Elon, Furman, UNC-Nowhere'sville or anywhere else that throws money at girls who haven't done anything yet because they're going all in on XC in mid-major conferences.

The most awkwardist hand holder in the whole wide world wrote:

yep, nailed it indeed wrote:

Yep, he'd deny it, but he is too picky indeed. It'll bite him hard in the butt one year. He wants guys and gals under certain times, if not, forget it as you're not even going to be a walk-on.

Then look at what they run during the season and it doesn't fit. Seriously, look at their pr's coming in and then what they do during the season.

It's his call, but personally I don't think he's as good as he appears to think he is. Ever hear of developing decent runners versus only wanting phenoms who may or may not pan out?

OK...so let me get this straight. Are all you butt hurt dads with 2:12/5:00/10:45 daughters complaining that Vanderbilt didn't let your girl walk on after they got in? Or get admissions assistance for a recruited walk-on roster spot? Or that your girl should have been recruited hard & gotten a big 'ole scholarship for your little princess' 5:00 mile? Because a 2:12/5:00/10:45 girl is worth $0.00 in the SEC. Sure it might win you some local races & even a state championship in a backwater area like SEC country...but that girl isn't worth a dime to a Power 5 school. Can that girl develop into that caliber of athlete? Sure! But she sure as hell doesn't deserve $$$ until she does. Now maybe I'm wrong & Vandy told your 5 minute miler to piss off...but I highly doubt that. Tell me if I'm wrong & they wouldn't even respond to your 10:45 sweet heart. Maybe your 2:12 darling got into Vanderbilt independently & they told her they were too good for her. Maybe your Tennessee state XC champ was told to do better next time if she wanted them to let her walk on to the team. If that's the case, sure, keep sh!tting all over them being too selective for their level...but if you dads are all just sour that Vanderbilt didn't make it rain on your perfect little angel, then have fun at Lipscomb, Austin Peay, Bradley, Elon, Furman, UNC-Nowhere'sville or anywhere else that throws money at girls who haven't done anything yet because they're going all in on XC in mid-major conferences.

A real. Och wrote:

It’s great when some of those niche schools are accused of going all in on xc whereas big old P5 schools are hving a well rounded track team. Which usually men’s they stink at everything.

None of the schools you mentioned have the facilities or extra curriculars to offer that Vanderbilt has to offer.

Factsnotwords wrote:

Wow a whole lot of emotion on this board. Just look at the facts. In 2015 Vanderbilt had one of the top ten recruiting classes in the nation. They scored 3 of the top 25, but have done nothing with that. Last two years,even with that talent, they haven’t made it to nationals. With those grand recruiting days behind them they still think they can get those kind of athletes and have been snubbing some pretty stellar talent (sub 5 for the guy that thinks he knows what times they’ve been rejecting) It’s an amazing school, just not the best environment for a top tier running program. Those defending VB pls show us the development. More ladies have Stagnated then improved.

The most awkwardist hand holder in the whole wide world wrote:

A real. Och wrote:

It’s great when some of those niche schools are accused of going all in on xc whereas big old P5 schools are hving a well rounded track team. Which usually men’s they stink at everything.

None of the schools you mentioned have the facilities or extra curriculars to offer that Vanderbilt has to offer.

Exactly. Which is why they don't have to lower themselves to offering money to sub-5 women (?!)

Factsnotwords wrote:

Wow a whole lot of emotion on this board. Just look at the facts. In 2015 Vanderbilt had one of the top ten recruiting classes in the nation. They scored 3 of the top 25, but have done nothing with that. Last two years,even with that talent, they haven’t made it to nationals. With those grand recruiting days behind them they still think they can get those kind of athletes and have been snubbing some pretty stellar talent (sub 5 for the guy that thinks he knows what times they’ve been rejecting) It’s an amazing school, just not the best environment for a top tier running program. Those defending VB pls show us the development. More ladies have Stagnated then improved.

So they've been on a down swing the last few years...so what? Happens to every program - they'll be back. Doesn't mean they have to lower themselves by going after slow women who aren't SEC/P5 material. And by snubbing, you mean to tell me they're not letting sub 5 women walk on? No ones answered that yet... Or maybe they're just passing on anorexic women who've run fast but they know aren't going to sustain that? That's alright, Furman'll take'em!

Hooey ya'll got sensitive 'bout ur daughters! Sorry the highest bidder was Rice - the Harvard of Houston. Not everyone is Vandy material like my boyfriend on the team!!!