Mo Farah sues Ben Bloom

That's your burden.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

So Rekrunner explain to new this, was the Sabadell physiotherapist part of the Aden group? You seem to imply that he had never met them before in his life.

I won't wait until next week. Your facts and evidence was not damning then, and it's not damning now.

casual obsever wrote:

DHT123 wrote:

Here you can see clear evidence that the questions about altitude are fully integrated into the information that is captured when an athlete is tested:

So the experts 100% had the information about altitude when they made their judgements.

Yes. Obviously. Again, all these facts - including the evidence - have been pointed out to rekrunner years ago, repeatedly, when first discussing Radcliffe's case. Then again with Jager. Then again with Farah here in this thread, starting on page 4.

Next week, he will start denying all of that again... He just loves it when we point out all the damning facts about Paula, for whatever reason.

Just go back a few pages in this thread to see how he - ever so coincidentally - brought the topic to Paula, and then wouldn't let go.

That was a thread about performance.

Voice of Reason wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Trying to get this thread back on track!

Nice try but what do expect pop? rekrunner's EPO thread got locked down to registered users only. That's where the Paula saga was more appropriately discussed at. Maybe the thread could be unlocked?

rekrunner wrote:

That was a thread about performance.

And isn't essentially the Paula saga really all about performance? Because remember...your whole montra to begin with is that EPO is a "myth" and doesn't work with elites. That would also include blood doping, since both increase Hct, Hgb, RBCs, etc. (i.e. "oxygen-vector doping).

So, therefore, why would you be arguing with everyone here on whether or not Paula blood manipulated when you have concluded that O2-vector doping is a "myth?" I can see someone who believes that O2-vector doping is effective with elites, and is a huge fan of Paula, wanting to defend her tooth & nail. But someone like you that believes it's a nothing more than a "myth" but yet feverishly defends her as clean makes no sense.

I would think you could care less whether she doped or not since YOU adamantly believe doping doesn't work anyway. That would be my position if I believed that O2-vector doping is a myth. If the PED is ineffective then why would anyone be concerned with who uses because it would have no bearing on any performance improvement fundamentals. This is where you're kinda weird with your motives on the Paula saga, as well as other O2-vector doping suspicions. ?

rekrunner wrote:

Sorry I can't give you the names of these up to 10 people, but it is a probabilistic certainty that there will be more, when altitude is introduced.

Lowering "generous" thresholds will also increase the number of false positives, and the burden of filtering them out.

Here you go again, pretending neither the software nor the first expert consult knows about the altitude. DHT123 just proved you wrong, and just a couple of posts later you double back and start the same trolling all over again. You really should have waited a week or two.

For the 10th time, it would only be "a probabilistic certainty" of the altitude would be ignored. Which it is not.

And likewise for the 10th time, since most drug cheats remain undetected, as proven repeatedly, lowering the extremely generous thresholds would be the first required step, IF - a big IF - IAAF were interested in cleaning up the sport.

Interesting. Up until this thread, I was neutral on Paula. I actually appreciate here commentary during various races. The evidence put forth here (provided the sources are reliable) is rather damning. Regrettable but not at the least surprising.

Well done!

stfu JS wrote:

Interesting. Up until this thread, I was neutral on Paula. I actually appreciate here commentary during various races. The evidence put forth here (provided the sources are reliable) is rather damning. Regrettable but not at the least surprising.

Well done!

+1

I don't think rekrunner is going to like to hear that. Lol.

rekrunner wrote:

That's your burden.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

So Rekrunner explain to me this, was the Sabadell physiotherapist part of the Aden group? You seem to imply that he had never met them before in his life.

Sorry my fat fingers, according to WADA's code of conduct if the drugs were found in the various Aden athlete's rooms, they would have been banned even if they cleared the subsequent test. Hence they were all store in the physio's room. You're argument that the drugs were the physio's, just really shows how cunning Aden and co were. And this was how they got off, Dibaba et al were waiting for the testers to arrive, then they would shoot up, the police turned up instead. So when they were tested the athletes were 'clean' in the dirtiest sense of the word. But Dibaba who could run 3:50 some 10 months earlier suddenly struggled to break 4 minutes, I wonder why?

casual obsever wrote:

Here it was, his first and only example for "simply training at high altitude already generates false positives" (his own words). Well played, rekrunner, we are now stuck again in one of your infinite loops about Paula's blood values. Poor Paula though - this discussion doesn't exactly help her...

rekrunner wrote:

If you still want an example, you are well aware of Paula in 2012, above population sea-level threshold, below population altitude threshold, trained at 2400m, sample objectively flagged for further review, then subjectively dismissed due to altitude being a plausible explanation.

Paula always defended her use of an altitude tent as being the same as living at altitude and leveling the playing field. If she was using the tent while at sea level, and indeed it works, it undermines her argument for altitude being the reason for her variability.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Sorry my fat fingers, according to WADA's code of conduct if the drugs were found in the various Aden athlete's rooms, they would have been banned even if they cleared the subsequent test. Hence they were all store in the physio's room. You're argument that the drugs were the physio's, just really shows how cunning Aden and co were.

These were the sorts of arguments initially used by Richard Virenque and the Festina Cycling team back in 1998 when the team's "soigneur" (basically cycling's equivalent of a physio) was found at the Franch/Belgian border with EPO, steroids, etc... in his car. The arguments were those such as "we have never tested positive", "drugs have never been found in our possession" etc ... In contrast to the IAAF these sorts of arguments were not sufficient for the Tour de France organizers and the Festina team were kicked out of the 1998 Tour. Nothing was done about any of Aden's athletes after the Spanish monster bust.

+1

Sad but true. UCI was tougher on doping in 1998 than IAAF in 2016. That may be part of the explanation why runners' blood values today are more suspicious than the cyclists' values, as shown by Tucker.

Does anyone have a list of runners in Spain at the time of the bust? I seem to remember one or two of the Dibaba's were there. I'll also google to see which is faster, LRC or google ;)

Holy moly, there's a huge LRC thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7399778&page=3

Looks like i have my reading material for the weekend :D

Did you get there?

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7399778&page=38

Entertainment value is so high i felt obliged to register! I was only at page 4, but I'll skip to your link. Thanks!

mo farah, T and G dibaba and a bunch more.... I'd say that's more damning for Mo than the whole l-carnitine fiasco. That is entirely my opinion.

The Paula saga is essentially about performance. These are two different things, but have one thing in common. I argue against things that appear to lack basis.

Regarding DHT123's proof, I dismissed it as soon as I saw the date of "Aug 04, 2014". What I pretend now, after reading the ABP Guidelines v2.1: - The Adaptive Model identified the high Hb of 16.2 g/dl as abnormal with a 99.9% probability or more - There was never any "first expert", but it went directly to a three person panel, as described in the ABP Guidelines - This three person panel concluded, quite possibly unanimously, that extended stay at high altitude likely caused the high Hb, and the 8-day delay likely caused a lower RET% - Making it an open and shut case You say altitude is not ignored, while ironically you systematically ignore it. Is that what you do after being proven wrong -- wait a week or two, then start trolling again? Now it makes sense.

Nice story -- still your burden.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Sorry my fat fingers, according to WADA's code of conduct if the drugs were found in the various Aden athlete's rooms, they would have been banned even if they cleared the subsequent test. Hence they were all store in the physio's room. You're argument that the drugs were the physio's, just really shows how cunning Aden and co were. And this was how they got off, Dibaba et al were waiting for the testers to arrive, then they would shoot up, the police turned up instead. So when they were tested the athletes were 'clean' in the dirtiest sense of the word. But Dibaba who could run 3:50 some 10 months earlier suddenly struggled to break 4 minutes, I wonder why?