I love how zoomzoomzoom is crying about the plate in this thread and then jerking off to the adidas shoes in the sub2 thread. Nike got you triggered? The plate is a marketing gimmick.
I love how zoomzoomzoom is crying about the plate in this thread and then jerking off to the adidas shoes in the sub2 thread. Nike got you triggered? The plate is a marketing gimmick.
Dril, do you really expect to prove a point by insulting people and providing no real reasoning or evidence?
You can’t just say it’s a marketing gimmick amongst all the evidence proving how the plate is indeed effective.
If you provided some sort of reason, it would be considered. But the fact that you haven’t done so suggests that you simply do not have one.
Either contribute meaningful discussion or go away.
Dril wrote:
I love how zoomzoomzoom is crying about the plate in this thread and then jerking off to the adidas shoes in the sub2 thread. Nike got you triggered? The plate is a marketing gimmick.
the sub2 is a tpu shoe with no plate, what are you going on about?
it's attractive because it is 3 ounces lighter than the adios, because TPU is heavy compared to EVA. pebax (RMAT etc) but I am certainly never going to buy it at $180, maybe half that someday
if the plate is a gimmick, then run in a shoe with only pebax and no plate
it's not the pebax, there are already shoes with pebax and nike could easily make one too
"The new Nike foam also tested best for energy return. It returned 87 percent of the stored energy, compared to 75.9 percent for the Adidas model and 65.5 percent for the other Nike shoe. The researchers believe that the combination of great cushioning and energy-return explains 80 percent of the Vaporfly’s advantage."
zoomzoom??? The one who says it can't possibly be the foam???
Like I said in the other thread, the only way to level the playing field: we MUST ban all shoes! How dare we allow technology have an impact on performance.
whatsupchucky wrote:
"The new Nike foam also tested best for energy return. It returned 87 percent of the stored energy, compared to 75.9 percent for the Adidas model and 65.5 percent for the other Nike shoe. The researchers believe that the combination of great cushioning and energy-return explains 80 percent of the Vaporfly’s advantage."
zoomzoom??? The one who says it can't possibly be the foam???
Like I said in the other thread, the only way to level the playing field: we MUST ban all shoes! How dare we allow technology have an impact on performance.
https://www.runnersworld.com/running-shoes/nikes-vaporfly-4-shoes-really-did-boost-the-running-economy-of-everyone-tested-says
If the plate isn’t a factor they wouldn’t have put it in the shoe. The shoes are mechanical doping. Which is sad because a lot of my favorite athletes have been running great in them.
How many of these threads do we need? It shouldn't be banned. It hasn't got the world record. Kimetto isn't more talented than Kipchoge.
flyvapor wrote:
It's the plate! It has been proven to give a boost to running economy. It's unfair.
It's progress. I grew up golfing with persimmon drivers. They were hard to hit. Greg Norman was the champ with persimmon woods. Big Bertha came along with oversized metal drivers and everyone could drive straight 350 yards. It changed the game and it was totally unfair to Norman and skilled classic equipment players. How is this different?
It's progress wrote:
flyvapor wrote:
It's the plate! It has been proven to give a boost to running economy. It's unfair.
It's progress. I grew up golfing with persimmon drivers. They were hard to hit. Greg Norman was the champ with persimmon woods. Big Bertha came along with oversized metal drivers and everyone could drive straight 350 yards. It changed the game and it was totally unfair to Norman and skilled classic equipment players. How is this different?
Because everyone could get an oversized metal driver. This technology is patented, the elite racer is not available to purchase, and so only Nike sponsored athletes can wear it. That’s why this is different.
Golfing would not be possible without clubs, therefore it’s justifiable to improve upon them. Golf would not be golf without golf clubs.
Running is still possible even without shoes. It exists by human nature and the involvement of technology in it should be limited.
Running is not golf.
flyvapor wrote:
Dril, do you really expect to prove a point by insulting people and providing no real reasoning or evidence?
You can’t just say it’s a marketing gimmick amongst all the evidence proving how the plate is indeed effective.
If you provided some sort of reason, it would be considered. But the fact that you haven’t done so suggests that you simply do not have one.
Either contribute meaningful discussion or go away.
I have no points to prove. I’m only here to mock you. There’s no evidence on the impact of the plate. The Nike funded publication focused on the properties of the foam.
Buuuuuuuuut wrote:
whatsupchucky wrote:
"The new Nike foam also tested best for energy return. It returned 87 percent of the stored energy, compared to 75.9 percent for the Adidas model and 65.5 percent for the other Nike shoe. The researchers believe that the combination of great cushioning and energy-return explains 80 percent of the Vaporfly’s advantage."
zoomzoom??? The one who says it can't possibly be the foam???
Like I said in the other thread, the only way to level the playing field: we MUST ban all shoes! How dare we allow technology have an impact on performance.
https://www.runnersworld.com/running-shoes/nikes-vaporfly-4-shoes-really-did-boost-the-running-economy-of-everyone-tested-saysIf the plate isn’t a factor they wouldn’t have put it in the shoe. The shoes are mechanical doping. Which is sad because a lot of my favorite athletes have been running great in them.
For the same reason there’s an air bubble window on Nike air shoes, marketing.
I placed third overall at a half last weekend. The guy that came in second beat me by a few strides. Of course he was wearing Vaporfly 4%’s. I still can’t help but wonder if he would have beat me in a regular pair of shoes....
Becauseeee wrote:
This technology is patented, the elite racer is not available to purchase, and so only Nike sponsored athletes can wear it. That’s why this is different.
Ridiculous logic, sorry. Anyone can buy the VF4%, even me. It's not limited to Nike sponsored athletes. Now other athletes may be contractually obliged to race in a specific brand. But that's the ch athlete's choice.
It's not Nike's not actively keeping the shoes out of their hands.
whatsupchucky wrote:
"The new Nike foam also tested best for energy return. It returned 87 percent of the stored energy, compared to 75.9 percent for the Adidas model and 65.5 percent for the other Nike shoe. The researchers believe that the combination of great cushioning and energy-return explains 80 percent of the Vaporfly’s advantage."
zoomzoom??? The one who says it can't possibly be the foam???
Like I said in the other thread, the only way to level the playing field: we MUST ban all shoes! How dare we allow technology have an impact on performance.
https://www.runnersworld.com/running-shoes/nikes-vaporfly-4-shoes-really-did-boost-the-running-economy-of-everyone-tested-says
It’s the plate and foam combined. The foam can return all the energy it wants, but if the energy doesn’t get returned in the correct manner, then it is wasted. The plate is what transfers the energy to ongoing motion.
The version the elites wear is not the same as the shoe available for purchase. It is not available to all and that is one of the many reasons it is mechanical doping.
InformedAthlete wrote:
The version the elites wear is not the same as the shoe available for purchase. It is not available to all and that is one of the many reasons it is mechanical doping.
All this is incorporated into Nike's business model - Win at any Cost.
It's more of a mental thing.
Whatever is the latest and greatest will have the greatest effect.
All about perspective...
The Vaporfly and the Adidas Sub2 could eventually lead to an arms race. Do we want a situation where you have to have a $400 pair of shoes to have a chance of winning a marathon?
InformedAthlete wrote:
The version the elites wear is not the same as the shoe available for purchase. It is not available to all and that is one of the many reasons it is mechanical doping.
Of course it's not. Elite can have the shoes CUSTOMIZED for them. That goes not just for the 4% but all Nike shoes and all competitors' shoes. Obviously, the general public have to buy a version standardized for the masses, just like the off the shelf clothes we buy.
Les wrote:
InformedAthlete wrote:
The version the elites wear is not the same as the shoe available for purchase. It is not available to all and that is one of the many reasons it is mechanical doping.
Of course it's not. Elite can have the shoes CUSTOMIZED for them. That goes not just for the 4% but all Nike shoes and all competitors' shoes. Obviously, the general public have to buy a version standardized for the masses, just like the off the shelf clothes we buy.
"In truth, some experts said, debate about Nike’s latest shoes may only help increase sales to joggers and four-hour marathoners. A less expensive model than the Olympic shoe, with similar technology, goes on sale in June for $150."
From the NYT- not just a customized shoe, a different shoe with "similar technology". We don't really even know what the elites are racing in.
Mechanical doping. Ward, Huddle, Linden, Hall should all be filing protests.