Should the Vaporfly 4% be banned? Let's hear your opinions

Does Nike pay all of you guys to shill for them? Because they honestly should....this is the fourth thread on this I've seen this week!!!!

Yeah I'd like to know how to get a piece of the pie. Will shill for cheap.

No.

If we start banning shoes then everyone should just race barefoot to level the playing field lmao.

BigPicturrre wrote:

If we start banning shoes then everyone should just race barefoot to level the playing field lmao.

You could argue that barefoot would be the purest way to go, and that shod runners are at a disadvantage because of the extra weight on their feet. I do think that given the right terrain, unshod could produce faster times compared to conventional footwear.

But ridding the sport of this Vaporfly crap would be a great start.

What kind of shoe is 'unshod' and shod?'

Am confused.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

What kind of shoe is 'unshod' and shod?'

Am confused.

Unshod is a better way of saying barefoot, because nowadays, the word "barefoot" apparently applies to being minimally shod as well.

I think it will eventually become banned unless other brands join the fun like adidas, Brooks, Under Armour, New Balance, etc., and come out with their own plate shoes.

If NIKE continues to dominate this space, then the pressure will be too much and it will go the way of SPIRA.

Adidas Boost should probably be banned too then, no? They were going after the same effect, they just weren't as good at engineering it as Nike [supposedly] was. Anyhow, no the shoes shouldn't be banned. They are ordinary shoes in any sense of the word and they aren't exerting any external force on the runner to make them go faster.

Ban spikes too !

#spikestoo movement

I don’t think it should be banned. It should be made fun of and disproved by the running community and other scientists. Not the NikeLab crew. I’ve alre witness multiple local races as well as a few big state sponsored races where runners toe the line with the 4% or the zoom versions. Not a soul wearing that shoe produced! It’s a sham! How can a shoe make someone “run faster”?? It’s the athlete who makes the shoe, not the other way around. Nike is brilliant when it comes to marketing. They lie and hype products up the wazoo. If the shoe really made people fast, course records would be smashed WEEKLY! What’s that famous quote again? If you tell them a lie so many times, they actually begin to believe it.

It should be banned because I am a poor letsrunner who lives in my mom's basement and I can't afford to buy a pair without canceling my netflix and bangbros subscription. I hate everything that nike is: they are successful company started from nothing and i hate success. I simultaneously believe in free markets, the american dream, and voted for trump because I'm racist and hate socialism. I am too dumb to understand the hypocrisy in my own beliefs. My stupidity is major factor as to why I'm too poor to afford Vapor Flys. Therefore they should be banned. I rest my case.

Leonard Snark wrote:

I don’t think it should be banned. It should be made fun of and disproved by the running community and other scientists. Not the NikeLab crew. I’ve alre witness multiple local races as well as a few big state sponsored races where runners toe the line with the 4% or the zoom versions. Not a soul wearing that shoe produced! It’s a sham! How can a shoe make someone “run faster”?? It’s the athlete who makes the shoe, not the other way around. Nike is brilliant when it comes to marketing. They lie and hype products up the wazoo. If the shoe really made people fast, course records would be smashed WEEKLY! What’s that famous quote again? If you tell them a lie so many times, they actually begin to believe it.

It has already been proven that the shoe does improve running economy. How that translates into race times is an entirely different factor!

The advantage the shoe gives you has been established, and that’s all that matters. Just because the marketing exaggerates its benefits doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all.

in the year 1990 john campbell from new zealand ran as a masters runner (m40-44) a half marathon in 1:02:28, obviously without the help of supersonic high tech shoes. bernie lagat just ran a 1:02:00. he is a fantastic runner, obviously, one of the greatest. imagine campbell with a pair of nike vapofly 4%.

My takeaway from this and the other thread is that the Nike marketing machine has you all duped. The VF is nothing more than the next generation of lighter, more cushioned racing flats. It's an improvement on the existing shoes no doubt but its still just a shoe. With a price tag of $250 Nike wants you to think it will run your PRs for you but it won't.

heyyo wrote:

My takeaway from this and the other thread is that the Nike marketing machine has you all duped. The VF is nothing more than the next generation of lighter, more cushioned racing flats. It's an improvement on the existing shoes no doubt but its still just a shoe. With a price tag of $250 Nike wants you to think it will run your PRs for you but it won't.

But at a shade under $700, my upcoming running shoe line will do just that. Stay tuned...

Leonard Snark wrote:

I don’t think it should be banned. It should be made fun of and disproved by the running community and other scientists. Not the NikeLab crew. I’ve alre witness multiple local races as well as a few big state sponsored races where runners toe the line with the 4% or the zoom versions. Not a soul wearing that shoe produced! It’s a sham! How can a shoe make someone “run faster”?? It’s the athlete who makes the shoe, not the other way around. Nike is brilliant when it comes to marketing. They lie and hype products up the wazoo. If the shoe really made people fast, course records would be smashed WEEKLY! What’s that famous quote again? If you tell them a lie so many times, they actually begin to believe it.

You realize the ones the elites wear aren’t the same that are for sale, right? I love the bowermsn team- huge Jager and Derrick fans- but this is crazy. Flanagan wins NYC at 36? Hastings has a 6 min PR at 34?

Hasay is #2 all time American? Rupp wins Chicago? Kieffer has a 15 min PR?

I want Americans to do well, but come on.

If I were linden or huddle I would be pissed. They are at a scientifically proven disadvantage in Boston. Makes it hard to root for Flanagan and hasay.

didn't need a 20th thread on this but yes, ANY shoe using a full length plate should be banned from road racing

if Nike wants to make super cushioned and "springy" shoes using pebax foam instead of EVA or TPU, go for it

if people want to use such shoes for training to aid recovery and reduce stress fractures, go for it (they certainly are not helping train you however to run any better when you switch to other shoes)

but no full length plates, it's a mechanical device, it's mechanical doping

and people bringing up spike plates are just trying to muddy the issue, it's a completely different type of design and purpose and most certainly not full length

however I've noticed now that a lot of people who work for IAAF and USATF are sponsored by Nike, even if these people aren't voting members, they most certainly work under and around people who are and those people know they would be hurting friends and family to vote against them

so the corruption may be here for awhile until successive generations of these kinds of shoes become so efficient that it's ridiculous to everyone

btw the plate is not a straight plate, it is high in the back and dips in the front, it's been engineered to "seesaw" - probably took them several tries to figure this out

https://i.imgur.com/TVn3IK8.jpg

I know that the number of threads about this topic might have become excessive, but what you said did a great job of exemplifying the point I brought up.

The carbon fiber plate is much different from what anyone has ever seen. Most "springy" shoes don't actually return energy effectively, so the plate in the Vaporfly is designed in a way to channel this return energy so it aids in locomotion.

It's the plate! It has been proven to give a boost to running economy. It's unfair.