University of Minnesota Men's T&F

Minnesotans are Charmin soft.

Just my 2 cents. I graduated 2 years ago and Plaz made an effort to contact me himself and seemed to be interested in me (top 10ish in state) and I eventually went on a visit even though I hadn't considered it that much right away. I actually had a great time on my visit and I actually enjoyed talking with Plaz and the visit itself upped my interest by a ton moving up to my top choice. I could tell he was an introvert but I don't think its as bad as soon people claim. Long story short my senior year of cross didn't go quite as well as I had hoped (finished outside the top 5 at state) and Plaz turned very hesitant when talking to me and ended up not being able to offer me a scholarship like he had previously claimed he could. I do not blame him for this at all as I was not quite at the same level as the state champs that had already committed and I ended up going somewhere else. I don't think Plaz is as bad as a person as some people think however I agree with all the people who say he has an inability to develop talent and being a fan of the gophers, I think they need a new coach. There have just been too many talented Minnesotans who have gone to the gophers and failed and too many who have left the state and succeeded elsewhere.

Thank you for addressing my question.

I was/am aware that there is excellent running and recreational opportunities for a large city. That is why I like greater Minneapolis so much. They do a good job with that. I was not aware that U of Minn did not have an outdoor track. That sort of explains why I had not been there for all these years. I usually have seen the other BIG 10 cities while going to BIG 10 outdoor Champs or the BIG 10 XC Champs. Or the Great Lakes XC Regional.

I was not comparing the campuses or the cities, as I realize that they are apples and chainsaws. Even Ann Arbor and East Lansing (60 minutes apart) with similar size schools and similar size cities (306,000 in the urban MSA and 450,000 respectively) are VERY different. I was born in Ann Arbor and live in East Lansing. They are way different.

The only way Madison and Minneapolis seem similar is their weather and because the latitude is closer, but the Minneapolis MSA is 10 times the population of Ann Arbor. So I get it that Minneapolis is a BIG city, the others mentioned are just cities or big college towns. Already got it every time I visited actually.

There are more than two dorms right? You must be meaning that there are quite a few dorms on the East Bank? MSU is smaller (at 50,000 students) and they have probably 16 dorms.

I am surprised to hear some of this about Plas, he comes from a time when the training was quite difficult and I have seen his logs, they don't look like the stuff that was mentioned.

I disagree with what little was posted as well, from the knowledge I have.

Mileage seems...disorganized. Most athletes don't know what mileage they are running, they just do what Plas says (which, if there is a plan, few athletes seem to be made aware of). I'd approximate mileage to be around 70-90 for the majority of athletes based on long runs and what my connection says.

Summer training also has pretty much no guidance from what I've heard, if anything it seems like the athletes take it upon themselves to go too hard.

Workouts are almost always progressive; progressive tempos (6-9 miles), or reps that get faster as the workout goes on (commonly decreasing in distance as well). However, it doesn't seem like the season is planned out very well (just my opinion).

Very little true speed, not really even strides. Not really anything sub 30 per 200 pace.

Having lived in Minneapolis, the running is actually fantastic compared to almost any major city. Great bike paths, some good single track, and generally walking/running paths everywhere.

U of MN is also a very good school, with a diverse set of strong majors. Good research institution for grad school too.

Just my two cents.

Ghost1 wrote:

Plasencia has been there for over 20 years, so maybe he is doing something right ?

What is his general training plan ?

Someone commented that Plasencia is an introvert, impying that introverts cannot be good coaches. Is this always true ? Any examples of successful introvert coaches ? Isn't Salazar an introvert ?

Ghost in France

The Gopher women's head track coach, Matt Bingle, is an introvert and seems to be well out-performing Plaz right now, so I don't think the problem is just Plaz being an introvert.

Yes, there are seven dorms on East Bank as well as one on West Bank and one in St. Paul. Most students move off-campus to apartments or rental houses after freshmen or sophomore year which is why there aren't that many dorms. East Bank is the main campus where majority of majors are housed. There are large lecture halls on all 3 banks/campus locations. East Bank has a large grassy open in Northrup Mall, while St. Paul campus has several grassy areas. Most of the athletic facilities are on East Bank with the golf course and women's soccer fields being in St. Paul. There are tons of great places to run very close to campus including East and West River roads, bike paths including the green way, and the chain of lakes or Fort Snelling State Park are all close drives away too. The cross country teams have access to workout on the golf course or corn fields on campus in St. Paul which are additional nice places to run.

Personally, I think introverts can work well with single people, or very small groups. They are the antithesis of the 'rah, rah, rah' coaches, but this does not mean they cannot be effective, with the key being their credibility.

Plasencia ran very impressive pb's, including sub. 28 -10k on track, so surely some of his training philosophies could be transferred to his charges.

Back to introversion. Arsene Wenger, Arsenal coach for decades, is a clear introvert, and has an aura about him. Salazar, I believe, is also an introvert. Interesting that Salazar seems to work better with introverts, like Rupp. Kindred spirits, perhaps. Farah is an extrovert, in comparison to Rupp, and that might explain, in part, his leaving the NOP team.

Ghost in France

it seems to me that the gophers are currently a better dual meet kind of team rather than championship kind of team. They cover most all events with adequate depth.

Also, there are a lot of arm chair quarterbacks offering general complaints and really no suggestions about what should be done differently on a daily basis. Should the team culture change? How to do this? What is the team culture now and what should it be?

What is specifically wrong about how training is planned and conducted? What training should be done instead?

What are the strengths and weaknesses of each athlete and how are those addressed?

Sure we want all athletes to become their very best but it is responsibility of both coaches and athletes.

I see some of the gopher track athletes who seem to understand and be motivated to become higher level big ten and ncaa competitors. I also see a bunch of local/in state guys who look more comfortable with wearing a d1 uniform around town and looking important. Sometimes living in their past high school glory days. Sometimes getting away from your high friends, you mom and dad and going out state for college simplifies things so that those things don't interfere with the tough task of elite collegiate d1 distance running

Big ten running is not easy even if you are good. The u has always had trouble getting runners from outside upper Midwest. Michigan can get kids from across the country. Wisconsin does as well and this helps

People can take potshots at the coach but most people who do this know very little about the day in day goings on of the program. And the don't provide specific recommendations. I would like to hear those ideas from all the experts hear who think they know so much.

There are a couple solutions that have been offered. Hire a new head men's track coach who build a staff to recruit, develop talent to field a competitive big ten track team including the distance program. Alternatively, promote Bingle to program director and combine the men's and women's programs.

Points of thought... Some are redundant to previous posts.

1. Other than MN and WY, how many other states have only one DI school? Further, MN has no NAIA or JUCO programs. The NCAA II schools give very little money as well. All together, it should be like shooting fish in a barrel for Plasencia, yet the opposite occurs. I also think of all the studs that have left MN to go to college elsewhere: Klecker, Heath, Heath, Watson, Watson, etc. RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION ARE DEFINITE ISSUES

2. Development. On a mass scale, what percentage of runners are better than conversions from high school marks?

CANNOT WIN WITHOUT DEVELOPMENT

3. Customer Service. Steve is a coach in this generation and has not made the adjustment from elite athlete (in a poor era) to coach/ambassador of the ship that Griak built. At the present state of the program, he needs to cultivate verses turn people off. Every piece of talent driven away cannot develop. Bad customer service spreads easier and more than good.

PERSONAILY IS A MUST AND CAN BE LEARNED/DEVELOPED; IT TAKES EFFORT

Responses ar things like

1) fire him - who would you bring in and why? If it is bingle who takes over the mens distance group and xc

2) better recruitment -how? Be nicer? Give me exactly what kind of recruit he should be getting and how to secure them. Sure klecker, heath.... got away. You arent going to get everyone and for a few of those stanford and notre dame are much more impressive educational opportunities (if you into academics)

3) better development- how? Run faster? Get them better???? How what exactly wouldnyou to to make this happen? Just saying better development isnt enough

Not sayin its perfect over there but i still havent heart the experts provide detailed solution.

Point 1: My suggestion would be to reorganize the training to progress through the season and through a running career more (i.e. don't necessarily have all freshman jump into the training so fast).

Simplify workouts (the workouts I've had described to me seem all over the place in terms of distance, pace, etc. Until the team is performing more consistently, keep it simple).

Create a real summer training program. My friend who runs there hammers the summers because he's a super competitive athlete, but his performances are super inconsistent and rarely races near his fitness/talent potential.

Get the athletes to go easy. I've run with some of the runners on their "easy" days, and it's not uncommon to hit low 6 minute pace midway through the run. IMO very few runners are truly recovering at that pace, and their breathing seemed to imply they weren't part of that small group.

Point 2: It's true, the team doesn't have athletes from all around the country. BUT, does it matter if the members of the team have PR's that are national-class? I wouldn't say all their athletes have them, but I can name three recruits that are literally some of the most talented athletes I know, and there are 5-10 more that were 9:00-9:10 in high school. You can develop that talent, especially because not all of them were hyper-developed high school runners.

Point 3: As you take pot shots at the athletes themselves, implying they just wear the uniform just because they want to look like a "D1 athlete"?

No, Plas is simply not a nice coach in his actions towards his athletes. Maybe internally he's a nice person but the interactions I've seen and the stories I've heard simply don't describe someone who is good at mentoring athletes who are barely adults. I could name stories, but I don't think those athletes would like to drag up the past (i.e. the reason Plaz hasn't been fired yet; athletes get mistreated and then move on, preferring living their lives than to write formal complaints).

When dozens of athletes have burnt out in the past two decades, barely finishing their careers or barely PRing for years at a time, you want to blame the athletes?

The fact of the matter is that those of us from Minnesota are sick of friends, teammates, and rivals being sucked into the U of M and suffering through their careers instead of thriving. These athletes are incredibly hard working (trust me, I've run with them), and if anything are working too hard. But that's great material for a coach to work with. Get them to actually rest on easy days, encourage them through their rough races, and the U could be national-class, even only with in-state talent.

An observation that may or may not be a factor:

Aside from the All American-type guys (Mead, Blankenship, Rombough, Simons), it seems like everyone on the U of M team's competitive running career ends the day their eligibility is up. The Twin Cities has one of the best club team circuits in the nation, with several competitive teams and a series of 10+ races throughout the year, but you never see Gopher alums running these races. I think continuing to train after college is a sign of both passion for the sport and a drive to improve...if one simply stops training after their senior year it's probably reasonable to question whether they were "all in" while they were on the team and truly got the most out of themselves. A team full of guys like this will almost always underachieve. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, as a guy who spends most of their college career injured would probably have little desire to continue in the sport, but the U of M has literally nobody continue training except their stars.

Yes a gopher fan again wrote:

Responses ar things like

1) fire him - who would you bring in and why? If it is bingle who takes over the mens distance group and xc

2) better recruitment -how? Be nicer? Give me exactly what kind of recruit he should be getting and how to secure them. Sure klecker, heath.... got away. You arent going to get everyone and for a few of those stanford and notre dame are much more impressive educational opportunities (if you into academics)

3) better development- how? Run faster? Get them better???? How what exactly wouldnyou to to make this happen? Just saying better development isnt enough

Not sayin its perfect over there but i still havent heart the experts provide detailed solution.

1) Lundin, Martin Smith (controversial but he gets results, maybe not the best choice), Rombough (if he proves himself at Mankato), one of the D3 coaches from Wisconsin, someone from around the country that looks like they have promise. It's a hard question to answer not knowing when they would fire him, because how do we know who is available? If you're looking for one name, you'll be disappointed.

2) Recruitment is actually fine. MN only has one D1 school, so they get a ton of in-state talent. Maybe he could try extending a hand to more out-of-state athletes; from what I've heard he doesn't really try, says MN can't attract out-of-state. I would say don't recruit Cali kids, or Florida kids who instinctively say no to the cold, but more Michigan, NY, Washington, Oregon, etc. could definitely work.

3) He seems very disorganized, and the athletes don't really seem to know why they do workouts. I'd make the plan progress through the season more, beginning with a good summer plan that starts a little slower and ends a little higher. Maybe increase the mileage variation from freshman-fifth year as well (i.e. progression changes from 70 mpw - 90 mpw to 60 mpw - 100 over five years) to try and promote a career long progression of performance, not athletes who peak sophomore or junior year.

The point is, on this board are a bunch of amateurs, sure, but spotting a struggling program/coach doesn't take a professional. TI's frustrating when the coach has been there for 20 years and continues to make the same mistakes, and saying "don't say anything unless you know exactly how to fix it" isn't helpful either.

It's also possible their passion is ground out of them during their career there. Freshman kid starts out optimistic and hopeful for post-collegiate career, but by the end just barely finishes their collegiate career and is happy to retire.

From what I've heard, that's much more common.

And if that's the case that's a poor reflection on the coach. Other schools have plenty of guys who continue post collegiately. Even in Minnesota road race results are littered with alums of MIAC schools. The Gophers are MIA.

Surprised that Plaz., former US runner in Worlds and Olympics is disorganized.

Surely a guy like him would be able to dig into his past and provide good training plans for the kids. It boggles the mind that he is disorganized.

Listening to Plaz. on youtube -he seems to be very articulate and eloquent, albeit slightly distant.

What kind of sessions did Mead do, under Plaz?

Also noticed Plaz has won several coaching awards in his conference.

Still puzzled, but not casting doubt on your comments.

Ghost in France

How can a Big Ten, P5 school not have an outdoor track on campus? Where does Minn do their track work? Is there a HS track in the area?

No Track? wrote:

How can a Big Ten, P5 school not have an outdoor track on campus? Where does Minn do their track work? Is there a HS track in the area?

They've had an outdoor track up until ~2-3 years ago when it was demolished to expand the athletics building/football/basketball practice facilities.

Their new outdoor facility is under construction.

And yes, there are many tracks in the area. Still not ideal, but not a program ending difficulty to overcome.

They also do have an indoor track, and much of the track season would be conducted on the indoor track anyway, depending on the Minnesota weather.