wow, this is terrible. So sad. RIP
wow, this is terrible. So sad. RIP
As someone who has been on anti-depressants for the past 30 years, depression never goes away. Any amount of therapy or mind bending drugs only makes things better for a short time. I'm 61 and never is there not a day that I don't wish that I was dead. The thoughts in your mind is always there - the drugs just level you out. No highs - no lows- just someone who observes what is happening around them without any feeling. If it wasn't for my wife and son, I would have been on the other side of the grass a long time ago.
RIP..... Too young to go :(
Condolences to his family, friends, and to the posters on this forum that knew Jonathon.
Depression is horrible, and to the poster who said suicide is a selfish act.....you are correct. What you don't know is that people who suffer from depression cannot help it when they get to that point.
It's like telling someone with cancer to just simply stop being ill. Do some research before you post things you don't know.
Cheese and bread wrote:
I did a marathon last year and do not struggle from depression issues really ever. After a long build up I raced a marathon and gave it my all, the weeks afterwords I had some pretty bad depression i feel was induced from the chemical changes in the body that happen when you lay it all on the line in a race and throw your chemical balance out of whack sweating and flooding the body with endorphin's for months. I read that Jon raced CIM just a few weeks back, it makes me wonder if that race might have made someone who was already depressed suicidal due to the changes that occurred following.
I think that if anyone reads this suffers with depression, you should be bare minimum aware that hardcore training and then racing a Marathon can definitely make things much worse for you but remember, you're body has a balance, your balance returns and you will feel normal again, no need to take your life.
RIP duder.
Never had suicide thoughts after a marathon but there is truth to what you say.
Very sad thing to read about a young man.
Thoughts and prayers for his family who will hurt the most.
‘Tis a fearful thing
to love what death can touch.
A fearful thing
to love, to hope, to dream, to be –
to be,
And oh, to lose.
A thing for fools, this,
And a holy thing,
a holy thing
to love.
For your life has lived in me,
your laugh once lifted me,
your word was gift to me.
To remember this brings painful joy.
‘Tis a human thing, love,
a holy thing, to love
what death has touched.
RIP Jon
I remember when he came on the scene in PA pushing Craig Miller. Craig was supposed to just waltz through his senior year crushing anyone who came in his way, but there was Jon, fearless going toe to toe with him. It was insane. Craig had been a star for 4 years. It was like who the hell does this guy think he is??
I ended up rooming with him on a recruiting visit a few months later and he kept saying he knew how to beat Craig. I thought he was a little crazy. He didn't beat Craig on the track that year, but he went on to excel at the longer distances in college.
We went to different colleges freshman year and then when he was thinking about transferring we crossed paths again. He ended up choosing a different school where he excelled. I raced his brother Matt often.
I was always impressed with his brashness. As someone who had a high level of confidence, his was immense. He often backed it up too!
The last time I talked to him was at the Wild Dick in 2016. He was excited to get into the marathon. He thought he had a good future there. He probably did.
Crushed to hear this. You never know what battles people are dealing with. If you struggling, reach out. Don't be too proud to ask for help.
I've watched the 2016 marathon trials maybe a dozen times and his running form always stood out. Super relaxed upper body. Little arm motion. Loved it, used to think about it during track workouts and it always helped.
The day before CIM last December, I was doing my last shakeout run around Capitol Park and we ran right by each other. I couldn't believe it. The encounter reminded me to keep my upper body relaxed during the race.
I PR'd by ten minutes the next day. Everything lined up (weather, my training, fast course, etc.), but throughout the race I kept reminding myself to stay relaxed. Don't waste energy up top.
I didn't know him, but I knew who he was and he helped my running.
coahc wrote:
So sorry to hear. Athletes are not immune to depression. If you are reading this and you are thinking about suicide please see someone and get help. Every day we should celebrate being alive in this beautiful world.
Not immune is putting it way to lightly. High-level athletes, especially those in high school and college who are too often asked either implicitly or explicitly to deliver the world, are way more subject to depressive thoughts. This is my feeling at least in a decade of coaching. The pressure the sport puts in them and athletes put on themselves can really damage one over the long term.
Trump2020OP-the real one wrote:
Perhaps it may be counterintuitive, but the best way to lower suicide rate is to not acknowledge it. Increasing the stigma of suicide might make it more of a taboo option for someone with depression. Not having a memorial service and non recognition of their life may make any over glorification of the act of suicide less appealing for someone on the brink.
M.A.G.A.
The guy on the Yale XC team might agree with you, (I think the guy's name was Hale) but it kept it a secret. Says he "died on a Sunday evening at age 20," perhaps of spontaneous combustion??? as we still don't know what happened.
Rest in peace.
For people who are depressed, the medication works because it corrects an issue with one of the chemicals in the brain that is linked to depression. But once people are on the meds, they tend to think that they are cured and stop taking them and this is when suicides happen. but the reason they thought they were cured is because of the drugs.
People who have Type 1 diabetes cannot stop taking insulin just like people who have clinically diagnosed depression cannot stop taking their medications. it's a disease that requires something to keep it in check.
not sure if this is relevant in his case. but if you are reading this and are on meds for depression, know that you need the meds and it's not a sign of weakness. you can't tough it out.
I’d been in touch with Jon every day this last week. He’d just gone through a bad break up and was heartbroken. He packed his whole life in his car and left Minnesota and headed to his twin brother Matt’s place here in Portland. He made a couple of stops along the way in Golden and Boulder to catch up with friends and his coach, Lee Troop.
He drove all day and night Thursday and arrived in Portland around 8AM Friday morning.
He was admittedly horribly depressed, but nothing in our conversations ever made me think that he was contemplating suicide. He was planning on running the LA Marathon next month and “going down swinging.”
We had made plans to to a comedy show last night and I was at dinner with my wife when I hit the call. I’m still trying to process it.
Jon had battled (in his own words) “crippling depression” for some time. He’d seen a therapist at some point in the past and had they had decided against medication. He didn’t have medical insurance and so he currently felt like he didn’t have any options there. I was exploring options for him here to get some free help in Portland. Hell, I would have given my last thin dime if it would have helped.
Jon would have turned 30 this coming Tuesday. We had already made plans to celebrate.
He was a dear friend and a kindred spirit.
If you know his twin brother Matt please reach out to him with messages of support. I can’t possibly imagine what he’s going through and for once in my life I don’t have the words.
depression is a disease wrote:
For people who are depressed, the medication works because it corrects an issue with one of the chemicals in the brain that is linked to depression. But once people are on the meds, they tend to think that they are cured and stop taking them and this is when suicides happen. but the reason they thought they were cured is because of the drugs.
People who have Type 1 diabetes cannot stop taking insulin just like people who have clinically diagnosed depression cannot stop taking their medications. it's a disease that requires something to keep it in check.
not sure if this is relevant in his case. but if you are reading this and are on meds for depression, know that you need the meds and it's not a sign of weakness. you can't tough it out.
agree that it's a medical condition but the science behind the chemical imbalance stuff is fluffy. Psychiatrists will say it's both an art and a science in trying to find the right meds. I was in a mental hospital myself a few times. Couple of patients in there with m got EC therapy shocks & I was put on anti-psychotics. at least one of them took her own life about 3-4 years ago I found out. I haven't been on anything for the last 10 years. I was never suicidal but I had a bad reaction to the withdrawal from antidepressants plus I was on Adderrall for an ADHD diagnosis -can make some patients psychotic (I think that's what happened to me)
The other problem we have, at least in USA, is that health insurance coverage, even if you have it, is terrible when it comes to treating mental health conditions. Just try seeing a therapist more than 3-4 times per month (once per week) when you're in a real jam and the pay-out from your insurance is pretty much zero. Pretty soon you're stuck paying about $150/session out of pocket just to talk to a psychologist ($600/mo)
ewfweeee wrote:
The other problem we have, at least in USA, is that health insurance coverage, even if you have it, is terrible when it comes to treating mental health conditions. Just try seeing a therapist more than 3-4 times per month (once per week) when you're in a real jam and the pay-out from your insurance is pretty much zero. Pretty soon you're stuck paying about $150/session out of pocket just to talk to a psychologist ($600/mo)
Add to that that you can barely function, barely go to work, school etc because of the racing thoughts throughout the day and middle of the night and pretty soon you're out of a job or have to take a semester off from school and have nothing, in a first world country
Regarding the post below.. I have definitely experienced this - latent anxiety morphed into stronger depression especially around disappointing or even inspiring all-out training seasons and races. My strongest experiences also came as I got further along into my 20s, as Jon was. Very insightful post that undoubtedly others will find helpful. To Jon and those close to him: I honor you in this challenging time. Some other thoughts: Running involves a lot of solitude and self-talk/coaching, which for some personalities can also exacerbate inner turmoil as compared to times when you spend lots of time in the company of others. Like me, someone like Jon was very talented and respected.. but to someone trying to be a top-notch runner, you often see yourself, hear your inner voice, experience your skill and drive as INADEQUATE. Running itself is such a high, but then so much of life is not a high.. and there are a lot of opportunities for unhelpful coping mechanisms and such to creep in. “I’d feel better if I was better,” etc. “I need to get faster and train and rest more.. but I have other things to do in life too.” Many of these inner conversations can’t be shared externally very easily. It’s tough. Most doctors will tell you: anxiety and depression patterns do not ‘get better with time’. You need to put measures and practices in place to support these struggles. I like how this post was framed, ‘he lost his battle with depression,’ which reminds me of ‘he lost his battle with cancer’. Like cancer, depression doesn’t just ‘get better’ as time heals your wounds. But if you’ve suffered in these mental ways, you know that reality doesn’t stop most lay people around you from offering up the sincere, sincere advice that time will heal it; you’ll feel better; don’t focus on it or you’ll spread the suicide contagion... blah blah blah. It’s tough stuff, but it can be worked through, as long as you listen to people who know what they’re talking about, and compassionately ignore the ignorant.
Cheese and bread wrote:
I did a marathon last year and do not struggle from depression issues really ever. After a long build up I raced a marathon and gave it my all, the weeks afterwords I had some pretty bad depression i feel was induced from the chemical changes in the body that happen when you lay it all on the line in a race and throw your chemical balance out of whack sweating and flooding the body with endorphin's for months. I read that Jon raced CIM just a few weeks back, it makes me wonder if that race might have made someone who was already depressed suicidal due to the changes that occurred following.
I think that if anyone reads this suffers with depression, you should be bare minimum aware that hardcore training and then racing a Marathon can definitely make things much worse for you but remember, you're body has a balance, your balance returns and you will feel normal again, no need to take your life.
RIP duder.
alltoofamiliar wrote:
As someone who has been on anti-depressants for the past 30 years, depression never goes away. Any amount of therapy or mind bending drugs only makes things better for a short time. I'm 61 and never is there not a day that I don't wish that I was dead. The thoughts in your mind is always there - the drugs just level you out. No highs - no lows- just someone who observes what is happening around them without any feeling. If it wasn't for my wife and son, I would have been on the other side of the grass a long time ago.
I can't really explain why but this post helps me a lot. I'm much younger than you but have been fighting the battle for some time. It helps to hear someone else's perspective and struggle. Thank you.
Depression sucks just when you think you are alone a great person takes his life. I can understand what he was going threw as I myself have had multiple suicide attempts in my life. Depression is the illness that makes you look in the mirror and hate what you see the idea of self sabotage and I am simply not worth anything good is something I understand first hand. The realization of calculating the perfect suicide note to make those that love you feel at ease when you finally decide to execute is real to us. Back in my running days I botched every meeting I hate with a Post Collegiate running camp because I deep down thought I was not worthy of this. It sucks to log into lets run as a washed up 35 year old to see who else has broken the 4:00 mile to see this on the headline of the page. This really got me down to see this on the front page.
RIP Jon Grey
CPD1982 wrote:
Depression sucks just when you think you are alone a great person takes his life. I can understand what he was going threw as I myself have had multiple suicide attempts in my life. Depression is the illness that makes you look in the mirror and hate what you see the idea of self sabotage and I am simply not worth anything good is something I understand first hand. The realization of calculating the perfect suicide note to make those that love you feel at ease when you finally decide to execute is real to us. Back in my running days I botched every meeting I hate with a Post Collegiate running camp because I deep down thought I was not worthy of this. It sucks to log into lets run as a washed up 35 year old to see who else has broken the 4:00 mile to see this on the headline of the page. This really got me down to see this on the front page.
RIP Jon Grey
Just glad you're alive tonight.