It took me 5 years to finally crack 2:30 in the marathon and achieve my lifetime running goal. This is what worked for me.

Wow. Congrats on the marathon and for creating a relevant post.

MonkeyOffBack wrote:

theJeff - thanks! I’ve got a kid on the way, so going to try to fit in some shorter races before the due date. After that, I really don’t know. It’s kind of weird finally accomplishing a goal that has existed for so long... I don’t know where to go from here.

SJW - this was just a snippet from my 4-volume autobiography detailing my life as a box factory worker.

Nice sense of humor. Funny enough, I know somebody that runs a box factory.

Where do you go from here? Who knows. Life is about the process. The goals are the result of the process. I guess having goals helps motivate you during the process. Just figure out what is the next process, set some goals, and go from there.

But if you are just talking about running, become a local road race hero.

This is some inspiration for me. I am about to embark on my first marathon and I think we are of about the same ability and this progression gives me some insight on what type of training and preparation will result in certain marathon times. I might be setting my goals too low, actually.

Nice post OP. Can you talk about your running background before 2012?

Thanks

Wow, I'm even less talented than I thought. I haven't broken 3 despite having run a decent number of miles and having enough speed to break 16. I know this is abnormally bad--my marathons have all gone terribly--but I doubt even doing things somewhat well I could have run 2:44. Amazing that you ran that off basically nothing, and that your "hitting the wall in a major way" means you ran, at worst, 7:40s for the last 5 miles. You've definitely worked harder than I ever have, but I hope you realize that a big part of your success is talent.

Since everyone has been really nice, I'll try to bash as much as I can: in 5 years, you took 15 minutes off your marathon time.

I get that once you get under 2:40, every minute is hard to come by, but your progression is to be expected for anyone who goes from barely running to doing the basic things it takes to be a serious runner. 80mpw including a long run, a track workout, and a tempo or fartlek each week isn't exactly a unique training plan. It's what everyone knows they need to be doing. This thread will be useful to people who are close to 2:30, as they can see what kind of workout times mean they have a shot at breaking it, but I don't think anyone will learn from it, and I don't think anyone should be inspired by it.

Okay, I'm done being mean. I'm jealous of your talent and jealous of your work ethic. Thank you for posting this thread and responding to all the questions that have come in. Lastly, congratulations on your upcoming child! I'm sure you'll make a great father; I'm glad someone who:

-is a hard worker,

-stays positive,

-sets and achieves goals,

-and (most of all) runs a lot

is going to be raising a member of the next generation. Maybe the world is not doomed.

Hell must be about to freeze over. This is perhaps the first post I've ever seen on this forum that has received about two dozen replies and all of them are (mostly) very positive! Whatever the OP did to pull this off, I hope others can emulate. (Not to imply that there's anything wrong with constructive criticism.)

the thing I find interesting about this is that with the exception of the 8 mile tempo on the track where he alternated M-pace and HM-pace, none of his key workouts were at race pace. 5 weeks out he ran 20 miles at an average of 5:53 and it is easy to see that a large part of that would have been at or close to M-pace (5:40), but there is very little race pace work in there at all.

I am not training for or coaching the marathon so maybe I'm out of the loop on this but I find the absence of work at race pace very surprising and interesting. does anyone more knowledgeable than me have anything to say on that?

the other thing I find interesting is that with six weeks to go he ran 1:12 for a half, then on the day he ran splits of 1:14/1:15 which looks very strong to me, do sub-elites normally go that close to their pb for a half in the marathon?

Cheers.

MonkeyOffBack wrote:

TLDR: A base that consisted of years of gradually increased mileage, 1 track workout/week, 1 long run incorporating a workout/week, ~90mpw. Stunningly simple and boring.

It's what works. Consistency with progression over time is the ultimate driver of fitness.

The other thing I'd bet happened is increased intensity and volume of harder running. Obviously, it's clear it happened to some degree as he went from running no workouts to doing more and more, but I'd be willing to bet that percentage of his mileage at MP or above also gradually increased over time (certainly the absolute mileage did), and I'll bet that the length of his MP and threshold runs became larger.

I firmly believe extension and volume at MP and to a lesser extent HMP are incredibly important for good marathoning. Running faster isn't always the best option. I bet most people would do better in the marathon by focusing on starting with say 3x5M at MP and gradually extending to 15+ continuous at MP, and extending from say 3x2M at HMP to 8-10 miles continuous at HMP, possible in the context of a longer run, than they would doing the same 3x2M at HMP and just trying to run it faster.

Great job OP, it takes serious commitment to make those kinds of improvements over the long term. Lots of people have a great cycle or even a great year, consistency over many years is much rarer. Sounds like you can go quite a bit faster too if you so choose, given the conditions of your last race.

Great post.

Perhaps your biggest key was running lots of mile consistently over a period of years.

Lots of people, especially the young crowd, think they can go from 0-60 over six months. Indeed one can Finish a marathon this way but you may pay with injury or illness.

I think you have a good story to tell.

Jeremy R wrote:

Can you talk about your running background before 2012?

This.

Honestly 2:44 on 40mpw (with 1:18 HM split) is more impressive than 2:30 with lots of mileage and workouts.

What did you do during the 2014 stretch? No marathon results listed...

Wow... as a regular LRC visitor since 2005, I am absolutely shocked by the positive feedback on this thread. Even the criticism is respectful and on point! Is there a tide turning of these forums?? I appreciate all of the responses and want to address each and every one of them. I'll try to get a comprehensive response up at lunchtime... the morning is a little hectic at the moment. Cheers, you guys rock.

Respect.

I found that a good way to come down off the high of achieving your big goal is to keep setting new goals (i.e. a 5k goal) while also joining a local running group to share your passion and experience with runners in the community.

Great post

Great read my friend. I am aiming for a Fall 2018 Marathon. Will be my first go at the distance. Realistically, if I can get some solid blocks of 40 mpw throughout the year, I'd like to believe I can crack 3:20-3:28. I'd like to believe I am still years away from my peak marathon, but I've been steadily running for some years now, and finally feel confident enough to see what it's all about. I am running my 4th HM in May. Have you thought about 50k's on the trails? That fitness would carry over well, maybe even up to 50 miles if you're crazy enough.

gregmacd - Nice analysis! Though I think I'm hitting my ceiling as far as a marathon PR goes. In another life, one without work responsibilities, pending family, and risk of injury, I might have a stone’s throw chance at 2:19 with 3-4 years of uninterrupted training and resources. But, for me, OTQ might as well be beating Kipchoge. I’m in awe of those that reach that level of accomplishment.

sadfasdf - I just pulled 2 weeks randomly from my log. My schedule was very week-to-week. I would double whenever my wife had off from work. My non-workout miles were done at 6:45 to 7:00 pace. Here was a week or two before:

24-Sep: 12

25-Sep: 15 - 5 in AM; 10 in PM

26-Sep: 12 - 3 x 2miles (10:45, 11:00, 11:00), 1 mile (5:24)

27-Sep: 6

28-Sep: 16 - 10 in AM; 6 in PM

29-Sep: 10

30-Sep: 19 - 6up, 10 steady (5:35avg), 3down

90

RI red & Critiquer and basher - Thanks for the kind words, much obliged!

Reed - RE: underachieving. You're absolutely right. If I was reading this thread, I would think “That guy could have done better.” I've found that it is really difficult for me to "scale up" to the marathon... it's like a different athletic venture altogether. I felt that I had to get myself into what I thought was 2:27-2:28 shape in order to get under 2:30. I read a lot of posts (specifically in the "what did it take YOU to run under 2:30 thread") about 14:30 / 30:00 10k guys who had difficulty breaking 2:30 and I couldn’t really fathom that at first read. But I get it now… the marathon just seems to be a lot harder for some people.

Now, to whine with some “excuses,” my “official” time was 2:28:59.89. And the race had pretty horrendous weather (25mpw sustained wind with gusts of 45mpw). I truthfully think I was in 2:27 shape for that race, but things just don’t always work out. I have yet to run a marathon on a fast course with good weather. [I "paced" my wife to a 3:05 at Chicago 2016, which was a gorgeous day. I wish I wasn't coming off an injury a few months prior.]

Will respond to more in a bit. Cheers.

Awesome man, thanks for sharing. Great to see how other 'aspiring non-pros' are training - if nothing else, it puts aside the anxiety I have of whether I'm training properly or not hahah

I would say though, you must have some natural talent on you too, if you could run 2:44 off 40 miles per week *kudos*

A lot of the workouts look similar to mine when I got down to 2:28. Improving to that time (from 2:31 ten years earlier) seemed to come with longer long runs at an honest pace, and two-a-days once or twice a week. Long runs ended up being over 20 almost every week for 10-12 weeks with two of them being 26.2mi.

Most of the time I did two workouts plus the long run each week and averaged 95-105mpw. One workout was something like 5-6 1mile repeats at 5-5:15 pace with 2min rest. The other was something like 8-12mi tempo at 5:30-5:35 pace.

If I had the time and energy to do it again, I'd incorporate workouts into the long run more often. Like 10mi normal pace then 10mi at race pace or slightly faster. That workout is really helpful mentally and physically I think.

So without knowing much at all about OP's training, you're going to assume he did everything the way you presume to be ideal? Seems like a reach to me! or maybe an extension to use your words

Congrats – RE: Downtime. For this year, my downtime was May through July. During that time, I ran a few low-key races and averaged 60-70mpw. No workouts. I was kind of pissed at how Boston went and wanted to stay relatively sharp for my fall marathon.

I got back into the marathon-mindset in mid-July, moving mileage from 70-75-80 and sustaining that through most of August. Workouts were more 10k-oriented with no long runs. September onwards was 85-90 with 2 workouts a week.

I was feeling absolutely exhausted all the time. Constantly drained, but the fire was still hot! After the 31:37 10k, I finally felt like I was there and the last two weeks I felt sharp and ready to rock. I could run 5:15 pace on tempos and it felt like a jog.

Gravy – Cheers!

Zxcvxzcvcx – This was one of my staples w/ core strengthening. Really helped keep my hips/glutes intact. I was teetering on the brink of injury almost the whole time, though. Probably ran through some bouts of PS that I shouldn’t have.

Vivalarepublica – Thanks, appreciate it. You’re right… I found that the satisfaction of gradually progressing to high mileage and small PRs to be really satisfying the whole way. And as I said in a previous post, I think a lot of my training would indicate a faster result. So you should most definitely sent your long-term goals higher than mine if you can handle the distance better than I did. You got it!!

Also, to clarify, I ran PRs in almost every distance in 2017 while in marathon-mode. Will address some other posts in a bit.