What pace should you run your long runs over the winter?

Libertarian vegan wrote:

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

Yeah I'm well under 2 minutes for 800m and sub 16 for 5k and 10 milers sub 6 pace aren't the easiest thing for me. There's no way a ~4:40 miler could handle that, let alone even manage that by itself outside of a race.

From the Vdot calculator for a 4:40 miler:

Easy run 6:44 to 7:05 pace

Marathon pace 5:53

In the winter, since I am building my aerobic base I use long runs as a easy up tempo workout. Not too hard, but just enough to give the legs a good workout.

So from my guideline, for the long run that it should be a min to two min slower than mile pr pace. My long run guideline also falls inline with the vdot calculator.

I agree that it's good to run long runs at a steady pace and get a good uptempo workout in but a 4:40 miler, especially one who is in high school and is likely not running much mileage, should not be doing longer runs sub 6 pace. That's ridiculous. Also, daniels calculator is pretty aggressive when it comes to easy and threshold paces. You might be a little faster if you don't overtrain.

For you 2 hours last 10k 4:20-4:05/km pace

Only the most advanced high school seniors should be doing 2 hour long runs. That's a lot of pounding and hard to recover from.

easy run/long run pace should be 2-2:30 min slower than your mile PR. And if the time is right and you're feeling good, you should hit your long run a little harder

WinterWorkouts wrote:

Thanks for the feedback everyone. So the common consensus seems to be at around 7:10-7:30 (at least at around the beginning). How do you think this should translate to running by feel? When I was running at 8:00min/mile, I felt like I could go forever and it wasn't much of a struggle. How should these be in comparison to that? Thanks once again

Take much of what is said her with a grain of salt. Lots guys on here with two much time on their hands that way overthink the process of training.

At you age and ability level,the longer run should be under 8 minutes, thats it, no pick ups, nothing timed in segments, relax and get the miles in.

If you can try to get a long run with hills twice month, perfect. Remember building strength and endurance leading up to the track season is a winter goal.

What is your 1500m pr? Now use that number for your km pace, it's that simple. 2/3rds of your mile pace if you want to get technical.

7:34/mi.

Arthur Lydiard is the coach I admire the most.

However he is also the most mis-quoted coach on the internet according to Craig Virgin who used that system under a coach at Athletics West in it's infancy. This coach had them going nearly all-out on long runs and doing bounding exercises on concrete!

Yes, Lydiard was against LSD running unless you were a jogger. All LSD does is enable one to run slow for a long time.

What you must do is run at a comfortable pace where talking is difficult but possible. Over time that pace will get faster. You work on the Aerobic system for as long as possible according to Lydiard.

I would hesitate to give any runner a specific pace based on mile time. Just because you can run a fast mile does not mean you are in condition to run a fast ten mile run.

Over the years the only new thing we have really learned about training is that recovery is more important that the stimulus. Obviously this is different for you than it is for someone else!

We do not believe in doing 40 x 400 like Ryun did without sufficient recovery as I think Ryun ran into and is why he peaked at age 21 (3:51.1 in 1967). Listen to Ryun's speech on You.Tube.com if you do not believe me. He admits their training was way to hard.

Under 7:00 mile pace

i would try to run a natural progression from ~745/mi to ~645/mi by the end

the vegan is retarded

"not only should he do his long runs at blazing fast pace, he should do 18 mile long runs during track, 10 miles with 4 warm up and 4 cool down"

noonononono

if you are at 40 -60 mpw, do 10-12 miles at, say a reasonably quick pace, say 1:45 to 2:30 slower than mile pace

Libertarian vegan wrote:

1 to 2 min slower than mile pace

So 5:30 to 6:30 pace for him then? Use your head man.

proglongrun69 wrote:

i would try to run a natural progression from ~745/mi to ~645/mi by the end

Is that different than a progression?

+1

I agree with the comfortably hard advice, maybe around 45 sec. to a minute slower than 5k pace. OP is probably about 16:40, so that would be around 6:15 pace. If that's too difficult then the aerobic system perhaps isn't well developed, so lots of improvement is possible! If so, then start at 6:30-6:45 and work your way down.

zephito wrote:

I agree with the comfortably hard advice, maybe around 45 sec. to a minute slower than 5k pace. OP is probably about 16:40, so that would be around 6:15 pace. If that's too difficult then the aerobic system perhaps isn't well developed, so lots of improvement is possible! If so, then start at 6:30-6:45 and work your way down.

+1

zephito wrote:

I agree with the comfortably hard advice, maybe around 45 sec. to a minute slower than 5k pace. OP is probably about 16:40, so that would be around 6:15 pace. If that's too difficult then the aerobic system perhaps isn't well developed, so lots of improvement is possible! If so, then start at 6:30-6:45 and work your way down.

I think working his way down to 6:15 pace in the second half of the run would be wise, but that's still asking a lot for a 4:40 high school miler to run long runs sub 6:30 pace. He's not a kenyan who's been running 70 mile weeks since middle school. Of course he's not going to be amazingly aerobically developed.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

zephito wrote:

I agree with the comfortably hard advice, maybe around 45 sec. to a minute slower than 5k pace. OP is probably about 16:40, so that would be around 6:15 pace. If that's too difficult then the aerobic system perhaps isn't well developed, so lots of improvement is possible! If so, then start at 6:30-6:45 and work your way down.

I think working his way down to 6:15 pace in the second half of the run would be wise, but that's still asking a lot for a 4:40 high school miler to run long runs sub 6:30 pace. He's not a kenyan who's been running 70 mile weeks since middle school. Of course he's not going to be amazingly aerobically developed.

True. Feel is more important than actual pace; I subscribe to comfortably hard - if comfortably hard is 7 minutes per mile (it shouldn't be for a 4:40 miler but just for example), he should start with that - he should get fitter as time goes by and he'll be able to drop the pace.

WinterWorkouts wrote:

Last track season, I ran a 2:06 800m, 4:39 1600m, and 10:16 3200m. I am a junior now. Before, I used to do my long runs at 8:00-8:15/mile. I've been told that this is too slow and that I should running at a 7:00-7:40/mile pace. I am wary of going too hard on my runs, but I also want to improve. What pace should I be running? I think I can get sub-4:30 this season.

Define long run. It's too easy to say one cannot run 7:00-7:40 pace for a long run but if that "long run," happens to be 5 miles and the individual running it has some miles under his belt, and is well rested then that kind of run may be very easy. Perhaps too easy.

Peter Snell's best mile was around 3:54. Could he have worked towards running 22 miles at 5:54 pace when he was in top condition? He absolutely could have. Prefontaine supposedly never ran slower than 6 minutes per mile. Pre's best mile was 3:56 if my memory is good.

So we must always ask, what are we talking about? Define long run? How good of shape are you in and are you well rested?

I made the serious mistake in high school of running my mileage fast early in the summer and then going slower as the summer went along. (That was just one mistake I made.) There are lots of elements that must be in place for a good programme (using Lydiard's spelling~~~)