Allie Kieffer - Let's take a closer look at training? What caused a 15 minute PR?

Key phrase is... wrote:

Rick Sanchez wrote:

.... never saw her on camera anywhere.

uh-oh!!

I hope this is a joke. But seriously, you can see her in a white singlet and hair up in a bun/bob/pony for much of the live TV coverage just barely in view way off in no-mans land. What was interesting I thought was when SF started dropping the hammer with 5:15, then 5:08, then 5:03 miles starting at mile 23, the only one who wasn’t really dropping noticeably off the pace was AK according to the live results ticker. I’m usually hitting about 7:30 pace by that point, and my marathon PR was quite a bit faster than hers (until yesterday).

Kevin hart 4:05:06 wrote:

Explain? We are supposed to have some kind of national training program to sponsor athletes that manage a 32:nn 10k (hundreds annually?) in the off chance there's a hidden road thon talent in there somewhere?

Why would we want to do such a thing? So that desperate Kenyans with fewer job opportunities outside running will be pushed further down in the results column in us majors?

I don’t have exact solutions, but something to develop the next level of post-college talent besides the top tier than can get full-time sponsorships, at least more so that what’s happening now. Lower cost, more inclusive post-collegiate groups based at altitude in cheaper towns, maybe. The point would be to improve American running performance on the roads to a level that mirrors the improvements on the track in recent years. Outside the top tier, American marathon performance has been stagnant. It’s about building a better system that leads to better performances that might generate more interest in the sport if Americans are mixing it up with the Africans that we see winning all the big races and the next tier down. More kids will say “Hey, that could be me.” Rather than having a couple people that can compete with the Africans in the big marathons, we have more runners that can compete to get a lot more top 5s and top 10s and even compete to win.

Because look at the state at US marathoning right now. After Rupp, Abdi is probably the second best US male. The women’s side is a deeper with Jordan, Shalane, Amy Cragg, and Desi, but it’s a drop off after that. B-level Kenyans and Ethiopians win a ton of marathons. Allie Kieffer may have become the 5th best US women’s marathoner after this weekend. She did it on very limited supported that allowed her to step up training and focus to a new level. Not to diminish her performance, but there are a lot more people with Allie Kieffer’s level of talent that probably turn out similar performances and get in the top 10 or even top 5 at these marathons with the right resources. But the resources are not there at the moment and it shows in the lack of depth for American marathoners.

Key phrase is... wrote:

Rick Sanchez wrote:

.... never saw her on camera anywhere.

uh-oh!!

Don't confuse what I said with anything scandalous. I don't doubt that she ran it.... she just seemed to run her own race and not go with the pack

I dislike Nike almost as much as Shalane does, but they got it right with this Moonshot dealio. That's how you grow the sport, not by supporting a nefarious Bond criminal and his Petri-dish science experiment.

YMMV wrote:

I dislike Nike almost as much as Shalane does, but they got it right with this Moonshot dealio. That's how you grow the sport, not by supporting a nefarious Bond criminal and his Petri-dish science experiment.

Lol.

Runner's World:

"The weeks leading into the race brought their share of stress, with Kieffer unable to complete her usual weekly training of 95-105 miles because of tendinitis in her foot. “Two weeks ago I said there’s no way I can run, but the last few days I was trying to change the mind and tell myself I was fit, I was fresh,” she said.

In the end, her elongated taper brought an unimaginable breakthrough, one that could lead to Kieffer becoming a sponsored, full-time professional athlete."

August she did 11 times 1k at 5:10 mile pace with 1 minute recovery.

And November marathon was 26.2 @ 5:41.

I'd like to see the transition workouts, that reflect Canova and Hudson influence.

Story on her in Runner's World: she'd had a hell of a journey.

https://www.runnersworld.com/new-york-city-marathon/allie-kieffers-great-performance-at-the-new-york-city-marathon?amp

Surprised no one has mentioned the shoes she raced in. All the doubters who think the vaporfly doesnt make you faster should think again. They were a big part of her running so well. Not the only part of course, but they helped a ton.

This

The weirdest contributions to this predictably silly thread:

"WOW! If she ran 2:29 with no coach, imagine what might happen if she gets one!"

This might make sense if she'd never tried working with a coach. But this is untrue. She has run under Rob Cole, Brad Hudson, Terrance Shea, and Steve Magness, and she's only been out of college for about eight years. I think she's probably moved as far along the post-collegiate learning curve as she possibly can, and moved around the country as much as she wants to. She wouldn't be the only self-coached Olympic distance runner in recent U.S. memory, were she to make it that far.

Also, we're talking about a runner who was Foot Locker finalist, and ran 32:25 for 10K and 1:26:29 for 25K (5:34 pace) over five years ago, at age 24. It should not shock anyone that she just ran 2:29 for a marathon at age 30 off a big block of great training. It's wonderful to see, but it's not a Cinderella story, it's ordinary hard training paying off in a predictable way in a kick-ass athlete, plus a little race-day luck or magic or whatever

You're right. I'm not saying I'm anywhere near as talented as Allie Kieffer, but I was under the Project Moonshot and having new shoes and food delivered to me totally changed the game. I'm a graduate student living far from the PT opportunity that's a part of Project Moonshot, so I wasn't really able to feasibly roll that into my training. I wish I had; I neglected my usual 10-15min recovery during a conference 2 weeks ago on 95mpw and screwed up my piriformis. Was pretty devastated, but ran anyway after listening to Deena Kastor say she trains for feeling 80% on 75% days and still delivering. I ran conservatively the first half since I wasn't sure I'd finish, and I just enjoyed it and high-fived everyone, ha. I love the crowds!! After Queensboro, I decided to turn on since I held up that far. Broke my 2:50 goal, too, so glad I went. >:D 2:45, you're next!!

Post-marathon, a massage therapist knew exactly what to do to help that muscle and the nerve it pinches; also my legs were SO PAINFUL after that "workout," and 5 min of massage made them feel almost brand new. Can't imagine having that in my training.. Alas. One could totally do killer workouts and recover with massages..

It was really nice of Nike to do the Project Moonshot. I just started training in the spring of last year (used to just run ~4mi everyday, 8mi LR lol), and I trained in the same pair of shoes for a half in the spring the NYCM in the fall. (It's expensive living in NYC, and I'm a grad student..food is $$$ enough with marathon training, plus you have life [school] costs..) It was amazing to have a new pair of shoes.. no runner's knee all season.

Really glad for Ms. Kieffer-- she killed it!! USA women!! Represent!

Ron Clarke once told me that "coaches are the root of all evil in the sport." It's become fashionable now for athletes to think they have to have a coach, but in the past self coached elites were common. Guys like Clayton, Hill, Drayton, Shorter, were producing times that were as good as those of today's current western elites. How many non Africans are running faster marathons than Kawauchi? If anything, Kieffer's career suggests she'd likely be slower with a coach.

My concern is not a coach but the wrong agent.

Stay the hell away from Josh Cox. He is the worst in the business.

HRE wrote:

Ron Clarke once told me that "coaches are the root of all evil in the sport." It's become fashionable now for athletes to think they have to have a coach, but in the past self coached elites were common. Guys like Clayton, Hill, Drayton, Shorter, were producing times that were as good as those of today's current western elites. How many non Africans are running faster marathons than Kawauchi? If anything, Kieffer's career suggests she'd likely be slower with a coach.

Milers need a coach, marathoners not so much. I suspect Geb coached himself for most of his marathons. I believe Kristiansen was self-coached also, as was Alan Culpepper.

Great experience, amazing what a little amount of support can do for a busy adult.

So she didn't (have to) work at all since graduating from college? Or is she like an Annie Bersagel #2?

Either way, a good job plus a solid work ethic OR no bills to pay are the clear solutions to this problem.

Why is he the worst in the business?

Yeah, it's not just time constraints but also the cost.. Thankfully I'm a single female in my 20s, but still, shoes and food are expensive.. My club doesn't have any shoe deals, so I was super stoked when Nike gave me a pair of Pegasus to train in! One day my club will have a shoe deal..