Now it gets interesting, Zane Robertson's ex-girlfriend Betty Desalegn (Jama Aden athlete) is busted for Biological Passport

So your solution is to pick even slower times from tactical championship and Olympic races? For those who think doping means fast times, Mo's "slow" winning times (not to mention his blood values published in the Sunday Times) should be a strong argument that he is clean. (OK -- micro-dosing for micro-benefit to keep "casual obsever" happy).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Times can be distorted by a few tracks in certain geographic locations. Going by times, Mo is only competitive over 2 miles and 1500m, because there was a period known as the "the epo era" don't forget! ?

Good idea... Maybe I'll do that.

EPO rulez wrote:

If you really wanted to see the effects of EPO, you would compare EPO-Spain with pre-EPO-Spain and maybe ABP-Spain.

If you want to learn about culture and talent and history, compare Spain with Kenia.

rekrunner wrote:

So your solution is to pick even slower times from tactical championship and Olympic races?

For those who think doping means fast times, Mo's "slow" winning times (not to mention his blood values published in the Sunday Times) should be a strong argument that he is clean.

(OK -- micro-dosing for micro-benefit to keep "casual obsever" happy).

No!...microdosing doesn't equal "micro-benefit" when it's done over long training blocks. The increase in hgb allows longer & harder training sessions, better recovery, etc., which, over time, equals improved performance And the Ashenden et al. study showed microdosing can raise hgb mass 10% while flying under the radar of the ABP...who would have thought that's how they're avoiding being flagged these days. Lol.

My fault. Let's get back on track. I haven't seen any recent updates about Aden. Last I heard, Aden was being tried for public endangerment of his athletes, apparently for pushing vitamins and folic acid and other non-doping products. Maybe he'll convince the court that the quantities indicate it was for his personal use only. Or, you might be have something there about Catalonian disruption putting doping friendly Spain back in control ... If Aden does go free, it will probably be met with the same dead silence as Kenyan courts declaring Berardelli free to go due to a lack of even one iota of evidence from the prosecution, as none of the vocal minority steps up and admits that there was no basis for pointing the finger at Berardelli. I haven't heard any word on what USADA or the IAAF is doing about the Saudi physiotherapist Mounir, or Aden athlete Balla, or Yemen roommate, because of the EPO found in their rooms. Let's hope some journalist with Seppelt's reputation can find out who doped Desalegn.

What about Aden? wrote:

Can we stop this dopey conversation and go back to the topic of the thread?

My question is, is it really getting interesting that Zane Robertson's ex-girlfriend Betty Desalegn (Jama Aden athlete) is busted for Biological Passport?

Because no one seems all that interested.

Now that the Catalonian government is dismantled, and Spain has is back in control, will Aden go free?

Yet he still ran slow times. Good argument. I saw his blood values in the Sunday Times. They did not look like 10% higher Hgb. He was even below the women's sea-level threshold of suspicion. But let's still go with the 10% higher hgb mass but still below ABP radar scenario, because it makes a better story.

Microdose Micky wrote:

No!...microdosing doesn't equal "micro-benefit" when it's done over long training blocks. The increase in hgb allows longer & harder training sessions, better recovery, etc., which, over time, equals improved performance And the Ashenden et al. study showed microdosing can raise hgb mass 10% while flying under the radar of the ABP...who would have thought that's how they're avoiding being flagged these days. Lol.

Clearly nobody would take EPO in order to win Olympic medals. They would clearly only take PEDs to run faster than arbitrary times.

clearly no one takes EPO cause it doesnt work

Yes, somewhat limited EPO, but Farah got greedy and went beyond the safe 10-12% increase. That landed him on the list of likely dopers.

Iiirc, followup tests were negative, "clearing" him. Now he can try 17% increase instead of the 19% or whatever he dared to do.

Fun system!

Whether or not EPO works is a much better topic?

I doubt that. Canova is out, and left is rekrunner trolling along.

That EPO works, can be seen from the many world records during the EPO era, from the decline in the last 8 - 10 years, and from the observation that many groups optimized their EPO dosages over several years. One would think that if the best EPO dosage would be zero, that the coaches/doctors/athletes would have figured that out during the last three decades.

Dick Pound finally admitted it: nobody wants to catch anyone. So, you are 100% right, and that is not a surprise.

rekrunner wrote:

Yet he still ran slow times. Good argument.

I saw his blood values in the Sunday Times. They did not look like 10% higher Hgb.

He was even below the women's sea-level threshold of suspicion.

But let's still go with the 10% higher hgb mass but still below ABP radar scenario, because it makes a better story.

rekrunner - you really come up with some stupid stuff. Slow times??? The guy has gone 12:53 & 3:28 in the ABP era! Why don't you quit before your reputation is completely ruined on LRC...your nonsense is becoming comical! Lol.

Because he is one of our house trolls who want you to realise that he is trolling. Part of the gig. Like Island, Lsland, jamin, hardloper etc.

He also seems to have mod power, or is one of the mods' favourites, judging by the deletions here.

reekrunner is either

A) one of the mods who is trolling for traffic

B) some annoying british version of the brojos, that also is in love with paula "epo to the gills" ratcliff

rekrunner wrote:

So your solution is to pick even slower times from tactical championship and Olympic races?

For those who think doping means fast times, Mo's "slow" winning times (not to mention his blood values published in the Sunday Times) should be a strong argument that he is clean.

(OK -- micro-dosing for micro-benefit to keep "casual obsever" happy).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Times can be distorted by a few tracks in certain geographic locations. Going by times, Mo is only competitive over 2 miles and 1500m, because there was a period known as the "the epo era" don't forget! ?

Sorry Rekrunner, this makes absolutely no sense at all. So Mo that you assert is clean, is a long way from the WRs yet he has almost been invincible over the last 6-7 years (he lost the 5,000m in London but that was after a 26:49 and team tactics from Ethiopia).

mo is smart enough to know that he is WR capable but then he would be under more heat and tested more often etc....so he juices his balls off and only unleashes his EPO capabilities in the last 400-mile or so....i mean come on 3:28 1500....as annoying vent would say "is this a joke"

the answer is yes, yes it is. test is a joke, the governing bodies covering up for "special" athletes is a joke, this whole EPO doesnt work on kenyans is a joke, bolt running 5 tenths of a second improvement and the WR in 2 yrs, and all the people slower than him have been busted and he is clean...that is a joke.

paula calling out EPO cheats, yet running a HUGE outlier marathon, and claiming she was clean..thats also a joke.

here is another joke....

a vent/calKunto, retardo and a reekrunner walk into a pharmacy to buy EPO. it is owned by jim ryun. total price 3'24...the end

sad, dirty times wrote:

Whether or not EPO works is a much better topic?

I doubt that. Canova is out, and left is rekrunner trolling along.

That EPO works, can be seen from the many world records during the EPO era, from the decline in the last 8 - 10 years, and from the observation that many groups optimized their EPO dosages over several years. One would think that if the best EPO dosage would be zero, that the coaches/doctors/athletes would have figured that out during the last three decades.

Good points you bring up. And no...not whether or not EPO is effective (any person with half a brain can fiqure that out. Lol) but, for example, the info posted here on the Spanish doping success is fascinating. It seems to parallel the great success Spanish riders were having in cycling in the wild 90s (I believe Spain produced a 5-time TdF winner in the era). Good programs? A lot of money put into resources? Good doping doctors? High-responders? Makes for an interesting discussion...doesnt it?

I think the current EPO debate realistically now focuses on how much EPO (and other PEDs for that fact) athletes can use while navigating through the parameters of their ABP. Poistogova admitted EPO use and had a normal ABP. Poistogova's times are exactly pack fodder and she was good enough to get bronze at London (and she still gets to keep the hardware...no stripping of the medal! Lol). Savinova is faster than her teammate, won Olympic & WC gold and also flew under the radar of her ABP, with a retrospective review of "likely doping " by only "2 out of 3" experts. If athletes can dope staying within the parameters of their ABP, (and occasionally be flagged as "likely doping" with no real concern), then nothing has changed other than controlled doping for those that have the resources....what a joke - same as it ever was!

But the worse is that link on the pharmacy in Ethiopia selling EPO to high-profile runners. We now know their slick little cylce, according to one anonymous "high-profile" runner quoted in the story; a 45 day EPO & HGH stack (maybe GHRP-2...the "speed peptide?" Lol) stopped one week before the targeted competition. And with no ABP on many Ethiopians, and little or no OOC testing, they can utilize higher amounts than the doses of the ABP doper...imagine that. Lol.

The whole thing is a barrel of laughs!

^This. We can thank the IAAF for generating these ludicrous rules with such generous thresholds that literally encourage doping, and then their self-chosen insistence on unanimity among IAAF-selected three scientists that there can't be a natural cause for the ABP violation.

On top of that, the IAAF has the power to manually select whose old tests are to be re-analyzed. Now Radcliffe, Farah, Jager, Rupp and Co. are very happy that Lord Conflict-of-Interest Nike was promoted to the top instead of Bubka.

Advantage Ethiopia. I always considered it unfair that Kenya was singled out by Seppelt and thusly the IAAF, just because the Ethiopians wouldn't let Seppelt in.

In the end, there is no hope for a clean sport with the current IAAF leadership. And even if that would change, we'd still have NADOs self-policing their own athletes. As cited before, even Pound realized in WADA's report 2013:

"There is no general appetite to undertake the effort and expense of a successful effort to deliver doping-free sport."

"There’s this psychological aspect about it: nobody wants to catch anybody. There’s no incentive. Countries are embarrassed if their nationals are caught. And sports are embarrassed if someone from their sport is caught."

I smile wryly when performances by an Ethiopian like Ayana are automatically slammed as doped. A quick look through Tweets from Some salty British female ex athletes and additionally second rate American Soccer mom runners point the finger without any shred of evidence barring the performance.

Kinda ironic don't you think that skeptics always point to the Guardian article about the free availability of EPO in Ethiopia hence Ayanas outstanding performances. - ok if this is the case and EPO is so freely available without any OOC testing to worry about then how come the other Ethiopian athletes cannot get near her either? Is her doping just better and more sophisticated?

Also interesting is that accusation or insinuation of doping is very much a western practice. I have yet to come across any East African who speculates her performances are doped.

The pendulum has swung too far in the direction of "must be a doper" to explain excellence. Sometimes it pays to look for other more obvious and meaningful reasons as to why a particular athlete may be so much better than the others.

mindweak wrote:

mo is smart enough to know that he is WR capable but then he would be under more heat and tested more often etc....so he juices his balls off and only unleashes his EPO capabilities in the last 400-mile or so....i mean come on 3:28 1500....as annoying vent would say "is this a joke"

the answer is yes, yes it is. test is a joke, the governing bodies covering up for "special" athletes is a joke, this whole EPO doesnt work on kenyans is a joke, bolt running 5 tenths of a second improvement and the WR in 2 yrs, and all the people slower than him have been busted and he is clean...that is a joke.

paula calling out EPO cheats, yet running a HUGE outlier marathon, and claiming she was clean..thats also a joke.

? Louis Farrakhan would say, "I'm not laughing, damn it I'm not laughing."

It's simply a matter of consistency. It you believe EPO is the main reason for the fast times leading to the world records in the '90s and '00s, then the comparatively slow times of Mo and all of his competitors has a logical conclusion -- somewhere between "clean" and "micro-benefit". Part of Mo's invincibility is that many of his potential competitors have skipped the track, and gone to the more lucrative road races. This can be seen by the stagnation of track times, while the marathon times are dropping.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Sorry Rekrunner, this makes absolutely no sense at all. So Mo that you assert is clean, is a long way from the WRs yet he has almost been invincible over the last 6-7 years (he lost the 5,000m in London but that was after a 26:49 and team tactics from Ethiopia).