XC Runner & BME / Premed Haverford Hopkins or Swarthmore

CuriousParent wrote:

Bobby Van Allen I don't know much about in terms of his coaching style for the men's team, balance between academics & competition and personality (what type of runners he works best with).

Bobby has a similar coaching style for the men and women, but the difference in continued performance at the national level has been largely due to the caliber of female recruits. It makes sense- start to win championships and people will want to run for you. The men's team has been on the rise for the past 10 years or so.

The balance of academics and competition is certainly not trivial, but everyone else on the team is dealing with it too and the coaching staff/athletic department are always reasonably accommodating.

Are his runners happy, tight-knit, does he take an interest in each person or focus on the top guys,etc?

The team routinely has several BME majors. This is useful because the older guys have already taken your classes (and may even be your TA), and you may share classes with your teammates. The team was always as close-knit as you wanted it to be (for instance, rooming with your teammates if you want) and I think most grads would agree that their friends on the team remain their closest college friends after graduation.

Bobby puts a little more attention on the top runners during xc races (after all, if you want to coach your team at various spots along the course, you can't spend 5 minutes waiting in one spot) but the workouts and coaching are tailored for each person. In my experience he always made time for whoever wanted to have longer talks about training/performance, but was also willing to give runners more space if they preferred that.

Thank you Blue Jay Alum! This is helpful, I appreciate you taking the time…

how would you describe his coaching personality? Is he more nurturing/encouraging/motivating or more hard core/ edgy/ just do it or something else?

Realizing that different styles motivate different types of people… For instance, what motivated you or didn't? What were some of the "pros/cons"?

Thank you again I can't tell you how helpful it is to have someone with personal experience to ask.

They are all good schools and good running. I hope the post is a joke. you seem like an over bearing parent. What reasonable parent would go on a message board to compare high end schools and actually listen to some stranger's response.

If the school doesnt have the academic program you want then why would you go there? To be a diii runner??? Come on.

You seem exactly like the kind of elitist parent who is too involved in your kids life-

CuriousParent wrote:

Thank you Blue Jay Alum! This is helpful, I appreciate you taking the time…

how would you describe his coaching personality? Is he more nurturing/encouraging/motivating or more hard core/ edgy/ just do it or something else?

Realizing that different styles motivate different types of people… For instance, what motivated you or didn't? What were some of the "pros/cons"?

Thank you again I can't tell you how helpful it is to have someone with personal experience to ask.

Bobby has high expectations for the team due to their success. But, he helps his runners along the way. I never felt intimidated or that he would be disappointed in us if we ran poorly, because he was there on a daily basis to coach us and help us improve. At the same time, he didn't hold my hand and micromanage my life. The team culture and coaching style could be described as "Let's all work together to achieve team and individual PRs"

Personally, my motivation came from wanting to make the team better by running faster, which was how a lot of the team felt. The only con that I can think of was that sometimes the occasional guy wouldn't buy into the program and be something of a negative presence, but that never affected overall team performance.

Very helpful, thank you Blue Jay Alum.

Haverford alum here. Great school, great team atmosphere, with a great coach with a good understanding of the academic world around him. "You can only justify the existence of a team on a college campus if being on the team benefits the athlete's educational experience." But true, no BME. Very important thing to consider, but the 4+1 program does exists, and if you want it, you can make it happen, the resources are there to support him.

My 2 cents on the other options:

Swarthmore is similar to Haverford academically, but tougher. Carroll is a good coach (but not as good as Donnelly). Don't know too much about the team culture. Should be noted that Haverford and Swarthmore are in the Trico/Quaker Consortium, and you can take classes at either institution, plus Bryn Mawr and Penn. If getting into med school is the primary worry, an education as Haverford/Swarthmore is just as good as anywhere else with a premed program, both very respected schools. If BME experience is the primary focus, they probably take a harder look at Hopkins.

Hopkins is certainly a more widely recognized school in terms of BME, and probably opens up a couple more doors in that dept. They do have an up and coming team, but don't know too much about them. A much bigger team than either of the others, something to keep in mind.

Thank you Bart Siimpson, I appreciate your input.

Coach Donnelly seems to shape the whole person, beyond the running, to bring out potential. Was this your experience? It’s clear he loves what he does & is great at it, and hope he continues for decades...any rumors of imminent retirement?

I ran for Pete in the late 90's at Franklin and Marshall so don't know a ton about his current coaching but one thing I'll say is academics is a massive priority with him.

Our XC team was Academic All American at least 2 of the years I was there and I know that was a huge source of pride for him. We also qualified for Nats and had a 2nd place and 6th place overall finisher (different guys)

Pete is a really nice guy and our team was probably the most fun/ close one I've ever been on

Good luck with your decision!

My son was also loooking at these schools, but in the end it was Tufts University Jumbos ALL THE WAY. Gooooo Jumbos!

Save your money. Your kid is not smart enough for it to be worth it.

Thank you Diplomat.

I don't know the coaches, but if your son really wants to major in BME, there is no question. JHU is one of the top ranked programs in the country (#2 by US News and World, fwiw). A BME major provides a direct career path that is a nice option in case he decides against med school later.

But JHU is a different campus environment from the others. He should visit all 3 and see where he fits in.

Bump. Anybody know anything about Swarthmore!?!?

👋 I ran XC & track at Swarthmore under Pete (and the Johns). I think their overall approach is sensible and I had a great experience. I was not very good nor especially dedicated and that wasn’t really a problem, I still got a personalized program that produced results when I got serious (my senior year).

I’d also say the teams were pretty tight— here’s an essay I wrote about a former teammate after he passed

journeys.appalachiantrail.org

Traveling North

Appalachian Trail

Danny Cramer and I ran track and cross country together at Swarthmore College from 2009 to 2010, the year I graduated. Danny was in his sophomore year. Swarthmore is not exactly an athletic powerhouse, but it’s a great place...

Link:journeys.appalachiantrail.org/issue/sp...

Caveat that I graduated 14 years ago and things change, the team culture depends a lot on who chooses to run. In my time, most of us were students first and athletes a distant second. That’s part of the school culture for sure.

I didn't end up going to Hopkins, but Van Allen told me that they're looking for people who prioritize running as their 2nd most important activity (academics obviously being #1). I think 9:35 would have sufficed back then? Now it's about 9:20 from what I've seen as the male roster is limited because of title IX

It wasn't an issue for me as I had a perfect score on one of the SAT/ACT and similar grades, but he also implied he could get slightly worse academically people in than average - think around 1450 SAT and top 20% of class, not the 1550+ SAT and top 10% you'd usually need.