BYU Workout Wednesday - Roster Limits, please!!

Exactly. Those boys are going to BYU regardless. The rest of us don’t even bother recruiting good Mormon athletes...

I am against roster limits. I am all for continuing to maintain our current level of scholarship limits.

I am also all for reducing the number of scholarships in DI football to be in the range of 40, down from the current absolutely absurd number or 85. With 40, you should be able to easily have your entire set of starters plus about 15 potential replacements on a full ride. Anything above that is obviously just defensive moves to deny your opponents that player.

sdfsdfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

I am against roster limits. I am all for continuing to maintain our current level of scholarship limits.

I am also all for reducing the number of scholarships in DI football to be in the range of 40, down from the current absolutely absurd number or 85. With 40, you should be able to easily have your entire set of starters plus about 15 potential replacements on a full ride. Anything above that is obviously just defensive moves to deny your opponents that player.

....says the guy defending xc programs which do exactly the same thing. Defensive recruiting. Hence the need for roster limits.

If ever there is an opportunity for a club sport at a university, this is it.

Low cost, no facilities needs. Just camaraderie, and the occasional race.

Heck Strava can handle the fast stuff for you.

This workout was filmed on the first day of school (September 5th) and before BYU's first race. This was during try out team. Since then, you'd see that 10 of these guys are no longer working out with the team because Hey were either cut or didn't make it passed try outs. If you were at the workout done today (October 11th) you would have seen 25-30 guys) of the 25-30 guys, 13 are running in uniform, 5-6 just got off missions and are getting back into shape, 2-3 are coming back from injury, and 6-8 of them are 800-1500 guys. Also, Coach Eyestone does not write workouts for the try outs after they have been cut. Isaac Wood the D.O. coaches a "farm team" that meets after the BYU team and Isaac writes their workouts.

I have a lot to respond to you with but mostly I'm just in shock of how much of an idiot someone has to be to post this.

Can someone explain how a non-scholarship athlete #25 on the 'depth chart' someone contributes to a lack of parity?

Most of the best guys go where they can get $$$. There are already scholarship limits.

The walk-on guys decide to go based on dozens of factors. I'm laughing that someone thinks walk-ons are the crux of the issue in NCAA XC

Ward Alert wrote:

Didn't anyone else notice Jared Ward in the video?

Yes! I thought maybe it just was another runner who looked like him, but seeing your post felt like it validated those thoughts. It's got to be a great advantage to have someone like that to look up to especially for the top group who usually wouldn't have anybody. As for roster limits. I don't see a problem in giving more opportunities for runners.

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Back in the day I competed in this race:

http://www.joelee.co.uk/2000/busa/busa2000.html

Loughborough won the A race (limited to one team per University) and in the simultaneous B race (where there were no limits), placed 1, 2, 4, 6, 9 and 12 (that's 7 full squads, not runners).

So why doesn't Loughborough have any AMERICANS on team/on scholarship? This what irks me about foreigners in NCAA. It is NOT reciprocal with other countries. Americans aren't on scholarship at English universities.

Athletics scholarships just don't exist in the same way in the UK.

Most "athletic" scholarships I saw were about £1,000 a year ($1,000) and you had to produce receipts to show it was all spent on massage, training etc.

It's worth remembering that until 1998 there were no fees to go to university in the UK. The fees only escalated to £3,000 in 2006/07 and then £9,000 in 2010 so there's no history of scholarships to cover all of the costs as, to be fair, the costs were pretty insignificant.

In turn - the universities sporting provision is pretty limited. Most university teams are self-funded, "club" teams as you would call them. Despite the fact that they are really quite good. Universities don't tend to have mandated "practice" or "teams" - if you're a good runner you can train however you want and with whoever you want and they'll almost certainly still run you in the A-team regardless of if you've barely spoken to anyone at the club in the last year.

Everyone is provided with a large loan which covers the fees so you only pay them back after you've graduated as a percentage of your earnings - so there's never the need to have "scholarships" to enable people to go to uni - hence, the system never really developed that way.

There's probably a few "proper" scholarships out there that cover all the fees but it's the very rare exception.

Harambe wrote:

Can someone explain how a non-scholarship athlete #25 on the 'depth chart' someone contributes to a lack of parity?

Most of the best guys go where they can get $$$. There are already scholarship limits.

The walk-on guys decide to go based on dozens of factors. I'm laughing that someone thinks walk-ons are the crux of the issue in NCAA XC

+1

The farm team sounds interesting. Has BYU had success with guys transferring from the farm team and contributing to the team?

Yeah...I saw J. Ward. I thought it was strange there were no asst. coaches visible during the workouts. lots of kids for sure. the "Ferrari fuel" quote from Eyestone (in another video) about Linky still gets me. He may eat those words.

Niles wrote:

Ward Alert wrote:

Didn't anyone else notice Jared Ward in the video?

Yes! I thought maybe it just was another runner who looked like him, but seeing your post felt like it validated those thoughts. It's got to be a great advantage to have someone like that to look up to especially for the top group who usually wouldn't have anybody. As for roster limits. I don't see a problem in giving more opportunities for runners.

same lol thought it was him but wasn't sure, seems like the 4-5 extra people wernt on the team to me, and I don't know how that's a problem if the coach lest other guys practice

id say they have 30 guys out there exactly and that's perfectly fine, people just want something to cry about

On another note, what did people think about the extra long video showing the entire workout? I loved it, thought it was leaps and bounds better than the 2-5min over produced videos they've been putting out.

Bonkers wrote:

On another note, what did people think about the extra long video showing the entire workout? I loved it, thought it was leaps and bounds better than the 2-5min over produced videos they've been putting out.

I loved it as well, started a thread on it yesterday when it came out before this bs one

it was great to see the whole workout and how they were doing the whole time for sure

Derek Taylor walked on after more than one season on the farm. Made it to 2008 NCAAs in the steeple. I'm sure there are many others.

without limits 2 wrote:

Does anybody know why other sports have roster limits?

Football has a roster limit of 105 before school is in session so they don't make scrubs waste there summer, no limit after school is in session.

Baseball has a limit of 35, because good teams were giving out 5% scholarships. Now they cannot give less than a 25% scholarship.

Basketball does not have any roster limits.

Comparing cross country with basketball is a reach. You can only have ten guys on the court at a time in a basketball practice so if you're practicing 20-30 players you're taking practice time away from the 10 or so that you'll use in games. But having 40 guys running along a road or golf course is no different from having 10 so no one's "practice" is compromised.

When I ran in college in the early 70s we routinely ran against schools with 20-40 runners and this was all men, there was no women's teams then. I remember one meet at Penn State where there was Penn State, Penn State A, Penn State B, all the way down to Penn State E. There was no problem with that. It gave Penn State guys who wanted to run and race a chance to do it. I'd bet that anyone much below Penn State A never ran an away meet and sure, if they'd gone to St. Francis or Bloomsburg they could have been top seven but evidently they wanted to go to school at Penn State and would rather not "see the light of day" there than be somewhere else.

Cross country is not a sport that doles out scholarships like football or basketball do so the idea that these kids, the Penn State alphabet kids, would have signed with another school is unlikely and even if many of them did, they often weren't fast enough that they'd have made an impact at the smaller school. I think they pretty much were guys who had decided to go to Penn State whether they could have run for the team there or not. This sort of thing is rare now because of Title 9 restrictions but given the lessening of opportunities for college running with so many places dropping programs it's nice to know there are a few places that are without limits.