E.Mutai and Biwott amongst the Pacers in Berlin Marathon ! +others

For some reason I thought IAAF rules were only 3 "official" pacers. Is that incorrect?

3 official race pacers + max 1 'personal pacer' (if organisers allow)

I hope one of the pacers have a stellar day, goes on after 30 and takes the whole race (and the WR). :-)

This pacing field has 3 sub 2:04 runners and 2 2:05 runners, that's just crazy

From IAAF Road Running Manual:

"It is recommended that there should not be more than three pacemakers for any given pace as well as prohibiting personal pace makers. This requirement is mandatory for all IAAF Label road races."

This is NOT in the IAAF rules, just in the race recommendations. Berlin is, of course, an IAAF Label race, so presumably if they chose to have more than three pace makers they might lose that status. But it wouldn't affect record eligibility.

rupp-certified saladbra wrote:

Kipchoge is going to obliterate the WR down into the 2:01 low range, showing the Ross Tucker Science of Sport guesses to be wrong on how much the Breaking2 pace car helped.

I wrote at the time that the 2:00:25 was worth about 2:02:25 without the entire set of drafting support (runners plus car). That was based on aerodynamic models provided by a physicist, not guesses. It features, assumptions, yes, within a model, but that's still not guessing. I was pretty clear on the range of assumptions in the article:

In any event, my estimate is 120s total advantage, and I've said I think that most of that is the car and windshield. If the tesla/shield provided 50% of that benefit, it's 60s, and Kipchoge ran equivalent of 2:01:25. If it's more than 50%, say 90s or 75%, then the equivalent in Berlin would be a little slower, around 2:02:00. If it was mostly Tesla, slower still.

If the tesla/shield provided less of the overall benefit, then Kipchoge could run faster in Berlin with the equivalent performance. A low 2:01 or possibly even a little faster, given that they'll set the pacesetters up the same way and they should go pretty far if they're as strong as this thread suggests.

So those are the hypotheses, now the race is a chance to assess them. SHould be interesting.

Ross

Why do you pretend to know what you're talking about regarding aerodynamics and physics? People here need to know that you know not one thing more than the average plumber when it comes to both of those subjects. If you weren't such a grumpy d!ckhead to people all the time, I'd not feel the need to mention that. Stop pretending to be an authority on things that you are not.

If you are going to call out the Nike project as being gimmicky when it happened, then you should at least stand by your words when someone says you are wrong. You say in your article,

"Certain imperfect assumptions must be made, but in order to be conservative for the sake of a beneficial performance assumption for the runner, you’d say it was worth 2:00 (20% to 35% efficiency), and the projection would be that Kipchoge’s 2:00:25 was worth around a 2:02:25 had he not been able to rely on the car, shield and six runners for basically the entire race.

Of course, you now need to factor in what would normally be provided in a race like Berlin, and this is the point shown by line A2 in graph – the estimate is 45 seconds, and that’s being incredibly generous, as I’ve explained above. If you add this back, then the performance improves from 2:02:25 to 2:01:40

The end result is that comparing Monza to say, Berlin, is probably worth 1:20 to 1:30, and would suggest that Kipchoge’s time is worth around 2:01:40. The rest would be made up of all the other tactics."

You say that Kipchoge's run was conservatively worth 2:01:40 in Berlin, but now now you're posting he can run 201 low or faster? How about admitting you were wrong and that Kipchoge's 2:00:25 run was nothing short of brilliant?

El Keniano wrote:

And why are there no Ethiopian, Ugandan, Eritrean or American pacers? Why only Kenyans in all marathons?

They are the best at the marathon, so there is no need to get others who can't generate the necessary pace. The fastest Ethiopian, Bekele, is racing the race. Ethiopia don't really have any other fast guys, and America ? What American can run at 2:01 or 2:02 pace for 30km?

Kenyans rule the marathon, in winning and in speed. That's why only Kenyans in all marathons.

Bloggers like Ross Tucker just spew out 700+ word articles to click-bait, it is never meant to be cited later...

GOAT pace team.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

And why are there no Ethiopian, Ugandan, Eritrean or American pacers? Why only Kenyans in all marathons?

Ethiopia don't really have any other fast guys, and America ? What American can run at 2:01 or 2:02 pace for 30km?

Ever heard of Galen Rupp?

Rupp isn't able to go for 30k at 2:01-02 pace running in the front line. 26-27k in an exceptional day maybe. 21-22k more likely

NOP Skeptic wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Ethiopia don't really have any other fast guys, and America ? What American can run at 2:01 or 2:02 pace for 30km?

Ever heard of Galen Rupp?

Galen Rupp?? LOL .This is why people hate that guy. The overrating is insane. Rupp is barely a 2:09 marathoner. That is his best time, so no way in hell can he run 2:01 or 2:02 pace for 30km. He has no history of every running that fast.

Kenyans are the fastest and the best ,period! They live and breathe the marathon, so no need to get pacers from a different country. All other are inferior. That's just a fact.

scorpion_runner wrote:

NOP Skeptic wrote:

Ever heard of Galen Rupp?

Galen Rupp?? LOL .This is why people hate that guy. The overrating is insane. Rupp is barely a 2:09 marathoner. That is his best time, so no way in hell can he run 2:01 or 2:02 pace for 30km. He has no history of every running that fast.

Kenyans are the fastest and the best ,period! They live and breathe the marathon, so no need to get pacers from a different country. All other are inferior. That's just a fact.

Top 25 all-time in the marathon

Kenya 11

Ethiopia 14

TOP 30 MARATHON TIMES...have a good day!

1 2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 1 Berlin 28.09.2014

2 2:03:02a Geoffrey Mutai KEN 07.10.81 1 Boston 18.04.2011

3 2:03:03 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Berlin 25.09.2016

4 2:03:05 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 London 24.04.2016

5 2:03:06a Moses Mosop KEN 17.07.85 2 Boston 18.04.2011

6 2:03:13 Emmanuel Mutai KEN 12.10.84 2 Berlin 28.09.2014

6 2:03:13 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 2 Berlin 25.09.2016

8 2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Berlin 29.09.2013

9 2:03:38 Patrick Makau KEN 02.03.85 1 Berlin 25.09.2011

10 2:03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Frankfurt 30.10.2011

11 2:03:45 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 1 Chicago 13.10.2013

12 2:03:51 Stanley Biwott KEN 21.04.86 2 London 24.04.2016

13 2:03:52 Emmanuel Mutai KEN 12.10.84 2 Chicago 13.10.2013

14 2:03:58 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Tokyo 26.02.2017

15 2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 28.09.2008

16 2:04:00 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Berlin 27.09.2015

17 2:04:05 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Berlin 29.09.2013

18 2:04:11 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Chicago 12.10.2014

18 2:04:11 Tamirat Tola ETH 11.08.91 1 Dubai 20.01.2017

20 2:04:15 Geoffrey Mutai KEN 07.10.81 1 Berlin 30.09.2012

21 2:04:16 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 2 Berlin 30.09.2012

22 2:04:23 Ayele Absehero ETH 28.12.90 1 Dubai 27.01.2012

23 2:04:24 Tesfaye Abera ETH 31.03.92 1 Dubai 22.01.2016

24 2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 30.09.2007

25 2:04:27 Duncan Kipkemboi Kibet KEN 25.04.78 1 Rotterdam 05.04.2009

25 2:04:27 James Kipsang Kwambai KEN 28.02.83 2 Rotterdam 05.04.2009

27 2:04:28 Sammy Kirop Kitwara KEN 26.11.86 2 Chicago 12.10.2014

28 2:04:29 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 London 13.04.2014

29 2:04:32 Tsegaye Mekonnen ETH 15.06.95 1 Dubai 24.01.2014

29 2:04:32 Dickson Chumba KEN

Even in the top 10, there is just one Ethiopian!

You want fast times, fast pacers, you go to the kenyans... .enough said. It's the same thing on the women's side, except for Dibaba

Bekele and Dibaba are the only two for Ethiopia that can run with the same speed as the Kenyans.

And in the past five years, Kenyans have owned the marathon.

This proves nothing dude, top 25 runners ever

Kenya 11

Ethiopia 14

Wilson Kipsang and Eluid Kipchoge have 9 of those times and there's at least two from Boston there

What do you mean it means nothing?

The context here is about fast pacers for the berlin marathon! So it means eveything. Ethiopians can't run as fast as the kenyans . That is what those top 30 times mean. Kenyans dominate that chart, and the WR record holder is a kenyan. And there are only 2 sub 2:03 marathoners in the world. Kimetto and Kipchoge.

Kenyans all day. Ethiopians aint seeing not a damn thing right now. at the marathon level.