Very low T levels at age 21, prescribed gel, should I take it? PLEASE HELP

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

cyclister wrote:

Uh, you went from a 2 to a pro?

Odd, seeing as how you have to be a 1 to go pro.

So how'd exactly that work?

He was either born with the engine, or took enough epo/PEDs to fake it. He would not be the first one. Cycling success is based mostly on the engine you were born with assuming there are no EPO analogues.

Uh, what?

You don't know what you're talking about, either.

Calm down cyclister. Just thought it would be easier summed up by saying I raced as a "very low level pro". Shoulda said cat 1 but didn't know if that would translate on a running forum. Just trying to give some background.

This is all really besides the point. I'd really like to bring this thread back on topic so I can get some constructive opinions on the best course of action. I know 200 ng/dl is extremely low for my age, and would like to get rid of my symptoms but don't want any long term health effects.

My ferretin was on the high range of normal, I don't have the results with me, but I do remember it being very high. I originally thought this could be causing my lack of performance, but it was quickly ruled out due to how high it was.

As for thyroid tests, again I don't have the exact numbers, but from what I remember they were abnormal and showed "secondary hypogonadism". That prompted the pituatary gland MRI. I can try to find the paperwork tomorrow. He explained that the numbers meant that for whatever reason my pituatary gland wasn't signaling to produce enough testosterone.

Tried lifting after I stopped racing for a few weeks. Couldn't lift for shit, didn't put on any muscle, and my testosterone didn't move so I gave it up. The doctor also seems to think that with it being as low as it is there's nothing I can do to get it to normal levels without some form of TRT.

But really this is all kind of besides my original question.

Given very low testosterone, with the accompanying symptoms. Is it better to go through with TRT and possibly have a higher quality of life, or tough it out and just be "blah" all the time due to the risks? Also, any concrete data about TRT risks at my age would be interesting to see. Thanks for the help.

LowTYoungGuy

Post your bloodwork if you're comfortable doing so when you get a hold of it.

Yeah, you should post the details of the various results. It's anonymous, so why not. But there are a lot of experienced runners (and former cyclists) on here and at least a handful of doctors, and I've always felt like I've gotten good advice to serious postings even if it's not the last word on the subject (and despite the idiot responses that you invariably get, and have already gotten in some cases). Hell, unless your doctor works with high-level athletes frequently, I'd trust the LRC board over a random doctor. Educate yourself as much as possible, including soliciting opinions like this, then go back to the doctor(s) and/or find a new doctor.Good luck.

Questionable? wrote:

LowTYoungGuy

Post your bloodwork if you're comfortable doing so when you get a hold of it.

Ok I'll see if I can find it tomorrow. Thank you for the help.

I think I might get a second opinion. I liked this doctor, and he was genuinely hesitant to put me on anything. He practically told me to get lost when I came in, but after testing my thyroid, and seeing three more blood tests, he was convinced this was my only option. It did seem odd when discussing side effects that he said there was no risks. I'm pretty anti-pharmaceutical and tend to think that there is no free lunch. I'll try to see another endo before taking anything.

Would it be bad to fill the perscription and just see how I feel for a few weeks? If it's not a drastic difference then maybe it's not worth it and I could stop.

It's a slippery slope to try it. 100% guarantee you'll feel better. You'll sleep better. Think better. Enjoy working out hard again. Have a healthy amount of aggression that you can control and funnel towards your projects in life. You'll also have an increased libido.

All that being said, your best bet would be to research the hell out of what's going on with you while you have this increased energy at your disposal. The goal would have to be to be 100% natural and feel that way. Of course, this is if you're doing about 10mg a day. You start going above that and now you're getting unnecessarily high levels that can be psychologically addicting.

So do you want to more than likely trade your current problem for another one or would you rather figure this thing out with full belief your body can be manipulated with the right knowledge to feel awesome while staying independent of big-pharma?

Make sure you understand your lab values before you start the course of Androgel. Watch for irritability and mood swings about 4 weeks.

Did your doctor get a change to feel and examine your scrotum sacs for

any abnormalities?

You need to get into the habit of feeling your own gizmos. Long term Androgel can cause prostrate issues, so watch for that. And don't be tempted to apply the gel to your testicles, or assh*** area, in other words "use a prescribed".

Think short term until you adjust your diet and exercise levels.

Have fun.

Just wanted to chime in and say nothing says you can't have depression and low testosterone. Don't ignore the importance of your emotional health as well. Seek treatment for that if you think you might be depressed, which it sounds like you think you might be.

You're all missing the point, the elephant in the room.

Cyclist makes rapid progress by abusing peds, doesn't cycle the steroids properly and ends up screwing up his natural T production. Look this guy isn't the first, won't be the last.

Only option is TRT for life. Drop the family doctor and get an endocrinologist to help you out.

-1/10. Pitiful attempt.

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Calm down cyclister. Just thought it would be easier summed up by saying I raced as a "very low level pro". Shoulda said cat 1 but didn't know if that would translate on a running forum. Just trying to give some background.

.

But you didn't race as a very low level pro. And from there the rest of the story falls apart.

OP, before you go on T, you need to look into ways to boost T levels naturally. This involves sleep, nutrition, weight, exercise, and ensuring your body has sufficient nutrients to produce muscle and testosterone.

Sleep: Try melatonin plus Valerian root to help you get to sleep. Avoid ALL caffeine after 2pm... no coffee, no sodas with caffeine, no tea. Lack of sleep affects energy and hormone levels.

Exercise: HIIT boosts T levels. Endurance exercise reduces T levels. I'd suggest you find an organized weight lifting class. I'm not a fan of Crossfit, but I go to a gym that does high intensity workouts with weights and sleds.

Weight: Eat healthy and gain some muscle. If you switch to HIIT or add it to your running, you'll gain some muscle. I think if you do HIIT and gain 10 pounds or so of muscle, you'll feel remarkably different.

Supplements: You need to ensure that your body gets the raw materials to produce testosterone after you do the HIIT workouts. This is mostly amino acids that you can get in red meat, but I'd suggest you add a quality protein powder to your diet to ensure your body always has enough amino acids.

DHEA: DHEA is a precursor to testosterone. That is, DHEA is a raw material the body produces that is in turn converted into testosterone. Your body produces DHEA naturally, but if you have low T, you probably don't have enough DHEA. DHEA is a banned substance, but that shouldn't matter to you. Research it.

My doctor advised me to go on T a few years ago. It worked, but I grew man boobs, my testicles shrank, and I would occasionally fly into a rage with no warning. I stopped T and went to amino acids and HIIT. My t levels came back to normal. Fortunately, I didn't do the gel for very long so I didn't do any permanent damage to my ability to produce T naturally.

Stop running, eat more, don't be afraid to gain a little weight, wake up early every day and go to bed early everyday. Limit caffeine, do not drink alcohol.

Don't Adopt an extreme diet. Stay moderately active throughout the day instead of exercising.

Eventually add in deadlift,squat and bench. Lift all three 5x5 once every 10 days.

Use grass fed butter over other types of oil.

Do not eat 4 hours before bed time.

OP, I'm a doctor and in my opinion you still haven't had a proper trial with non-pharma management of this.

You say you are still running 20 mpw! (You also saying are running only "2 hours per week" which is BS...unless you're running all 6:00/mile it would take longer than 2h to do 20 miles. So your post is fishy on that aspect, too.)

It sounds like you don't have the discipline to truly cut out endurance training for just a few months as a trial. It sounds like you want to take the "magic bullet" instead and go on T gel, and you want the forum to nod in approval.

If you were my patient and insisted on it, I'd warn you about the long-term drawbacks, document your awareness of them, and prescribe it if you still chose that. But I wouldn't pretend you tried to do it naturally. But hey, the masses want a drug for every woe, why be different.

To all the serious posters, I truly appreciate the help. You guys are really giving me fresh perspective on this.

So it seems like you guys think there is a possibility I could further increase my levels naturally? The doc said my levels were so low that there was no way this could happen. Also, these main symptoms have been going on since middle school. Before I was doing ANY endurance exercise. In fact, I was playing football yet still having symptoms.

Sleep: I've always had insomnia. If I go to bed at 8 I'll be lucky to fall asleep at 12, and like clockwork, I'm wide awake at 5. Also, I usually wake up around 2 to pee and often have trouble getting back to sleep. Probably chronically sleep deprived since ~11.

Depression: For as long as I can remember I've been pretty emotionless. Never tried therapy or anything, but I guess I could try.

And the other symptoms mentioned above. I guess it's kind of a "did the chicken come before the egg" question of whether low T is causing the symptoms, or the lack of sleep is causing the low t.

As far as managing sleep. I've tried literally everything to help it except ambien, and absolutely nothing has helped. Mediation, melatonin, no caffeine, natural stuff, weed, you name it. Nothing has helped. I ligitimately have tried my whole life to fix this but nothing has worked.

I did a lot of research last night as to the side effects of TRT, and it seems like if kept at reasonable levels, the risks are minor if anything. And it seems like the upsides could be substantial. I'm 2 years away from graduating, and now is the time where I could really use some drive to focus on nailing school, getting an internship, and socialize for once. Part of me thinks I'm wasting away my "golden years" and why not feel way better if I could? The only thing that worries me is I tend to not put too much trust into these studies, as theyre often poorly done, manipulated, or funded by the wrong people.

To the people saying I haven't tried to boost it naturally:

After my first blood test, I stopped any endurance training (except joggging maayyybbee twice a week), lifted weights, ate sardines, muscles, eggs, red meat like an animal, and lifted weights all for about 2 months. After seeing my testosterone GO DOWN from 220 to 200 I decided it wasn't worth the effort (hate lifting and missed endurance sports). Did I not give it enough time? Even since then it has stayed around 210 despite drastically cutting endurance exercise. I started around 5mpw (lol) and am now only at 20. And only doing these miles at like 8-9' pace which is like 130bpm heart rate for me.

Really appreciate the replies. Going to probably see a Urologist for a second opinion, as it seems like Endocronologists are more experienced with diabetics and are very hard to get appointments with.

Unless your sexual symptoms are your main concern, and even if they are, an endocrinologist and not a urologist is who you should see.

But really, any GP can handle this. It's not specialist material.

Are you seeing an endocrinologist or a GP? Watch out for GPs who are way out of their depth with something like this.

Get a consult with a endocrinologist. Your case is unusual enough to warrant further work-up

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Endocronologists are more experienced with diabetics and are very hard to get appointments with.

No. Keep trying.