Rowbury says she doesn't know why Alberto didn't go to London as she mainly works with Pete Julian

Awesome. That was fun to watch actually.

As for Salazar. What you said (though I would argue about your "may"...), +

- drug cheat Slaney, banned for testo

- testo medication for Rupp as teenager

- elevated testo in Rupp's blood test

- suspicious off score for Centro

- suspicious off score for Farah

- telling his athletes to lie to USADA

Plus this of course:

Lots of smoke. + him bullying USATF against the rules to DQ innocent runners proves that he doesn't mind braking the sports' rules.

These are not very good answers...Without knowing specifically what Dr. Brown was formally notified of, it's difficult to comment on. Let's see where USADA's Dr. formal notification against Brown goes, and if this eventually implicates any Salazar athlete. Let's see if more formal notifications against Salazar or others are forthcoming. If these succeed based on existing evidence made public, I will be very surprised.The IAAF article may be interesting, but is not relevant to Salazar or NOP.

strong mind > weak mind wrote:

That is a good question.

(Doctor for Nike Oregon Project Runners Is Notified of Doping Allegations)

This was also interesting:

(IAAF consider formal action against BBC for grilling medical expert on live TV)

rekrunner wrote:

Will USADA accuse six athletes for banned infusions?

Well, it would be rather telling if they wouldn't. We'll see.

As much as fans here like to ridicule this particular rule-breaking: it could result in bans of up to four years for each athlete.

Don't forget about all the thyroid meds as well as the L-carnitine infusions that led to 10,000x the normal levels..amongst all the other shady stuff/lying he's done..his former athletes have given sworn testimonies , there is an FBI investigation, this is all real, and Nike even tried to impede the investigation. --- here's a couple articles from New York Times and sports illustrated..if u read these two below and other articles it's really amazing how far this goes..never had any idea it was this bad..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/olympics/2017/03/07/alberto-salazar-doping-allegations-fbi-investigation%3fsource=dam

Lots to talk about - great for a bar room discussion between drunken mates - but nothing that clears the higher bar of linking Salazar to an actual anti-doping rule violation. Looks like lots of smoke and mirrors.The end game is not just allegations and accusations.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Your "tongue-in-cheek literary amuse bouche/light-hearted satire on track journalism" went largely unnoticed to an audience that is more like Pavlov's dog when you ring the Salazar bell.

Awesome. That was fun to watch actually.

As for Salazar. What you said (though I would argue about your "may"...), +

- drug cheat Slaney, banned for testo

- testo medication for Rupp as teenager

- elevated testo in Rupp's blood test

- suspicious off score for Centro

- suspicious off score for Farah

- telling his athletes to lie to USADA

Plus this of course: (1999 Duke paper)

Lots of smoke. + him bullying USATF against the rules to DQ innocent runners proves that he doesn't mind braking the sports' rules.

I didn't forget any of these things, including former athletes and sworn testimony. Don't forget thyroid and L-Carnitine are not banned, even at 10000x normal levels. Anti-doping violations are not a federal offense, but playing doctor may have violated state, federal, or international laws.I'm amazed at how far it's gone (in the media), without having gone anywhere.I've said since the BBC/Propublica pieces, that it's possible that Salazar broke several laws, without him or any of his athletes violating anti-doping rules. Today, as then, I "strongly believe" that that's what the current evidence "likely" indicates.I would be happy to see new evidence, even if it forces me to finally change my opinions.

Factoids wrote:

Don't forget about all the thyroid meds as well as the L-carnitine infusions that led to 10,000x the normal levels..amongst all the other shady stuff/lying he's done..his former athletes have given sworn testimonies , there is an FBI investigation, this is all real, and Nike even tried to impede the investigation. --- here's a couple articles from New York Times and sports illustrated..if u read these two below and other articles it's really amazing how far this goes..never had any idea it was this bad..

...

It would tell me that USADA didn't have enough evidence to support their strong belief. It would also not justify all the other accusations that have been levied upon Salazar and all his athletes.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Will USADA accuse six athletes for banned infusions?

Well, it would be rather telling if they wouldn't. We'll see.

As much as fans here like to ridicule this particular rule-breaking: it could result in bans of up to four years for each athlete.

“We understand that some viewers were unhappy about the way in which Dr Pam Venning was questioned by our team – but the tone of the questioning was respectful with Dr Venning able to present her position clearly and effectively.”

You are almost on page 7.

Don't stop.

rekrunner wrote:

Lots to talk about - great for a bar room discussion between drunken mates - but nothing that clears the higher bar of linking Salazar to an actual anti-doping rule violation. Looks like lots of smoke and mirrors.

The end game is not just allegations and accusations.

casual obsever wrote:

Awesome. That was fun to watch actually.

As for Salazar. What you said (though I would argue about your "may"...), +

- drug cheat Slaney, banned for testo

- testo medication for Rupp as teenager

- elevated testo in Rupp's blood test

- suspicious off score for Centro

- suspicious off score for Farah

- telling his athletes to lie to USADA

Plus this of course: (1999 Duke paper)

Lots of smoke. + him bullying USATF against the rules to DQ innocent runners proves that he doesn't mind braking the sports' rules.

Rekrunner, in the history of doping in sport, can you provide one example of when this much smoke had NOT come with fire?

Both BALCO and Lance Armstrong (also Nike-supported/protected operations) barely had this much smoke until the days before the fire was confirmed to the satisfaction of the head-in-the-sand gang, many of whom were defending Amrstrong with the same rhetoric you apply here.

Please answer the question above directly and without obfuscation. One example.

rekrunner wrote:

nothing that clears the higher bar of linking Salazar to an actual anti-doping rule violation.

No linking? USADA said otherwise in their leaked memo.

Coneonnman wrote:

No. wrote:

I've never seen him, and don't know who he is.

Unlike Salazar, he probably doesn't care. Not being a media whore isn't the sane as being secretive. People who say btc don't share workout info aren't looking very hard. Chris Derrick just ran a workout at nike elite camp, video on rspace.

And that's why they're crooks.

Alberto put himself out there and was sharing everything that they did.

This guy took potshots from the shadows, and avoids the camera like the plague.

Investigations going back that far typically produce nothing...........if there were anything concrete, they would already either have been sanctions, or charges. My suspicion is that while there may have been things that fall into the grey area, and things that some would consider of dubious ethics to some, that there is nothing illegal that has gone on. I also have no problem with a coach pushing the edge of the envelope to gain advantage. Its their job. We all (or at least most) did it to some degree in our competitive careers. Time will tell relative to the investigations, however I will reserve judgement until if and when anything happens. I will also tell you that I do have some experience with the feds investigative arm, through several companies I have been involved in the healthcare industry. Typically when they have limited to no evidence of wrongdoing after a number of years of investigation and wasted money for all concerned, they extort you for cash to make things go away. Legalized extortion. I don't trust them further than I could throw them.

Drug cheats out forever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

nothing that clears the higher bar of linking Salazar to an actual anti-doping rule violation.

No linking? USADA said otherwise in their leaked memo.

Facts are fungible to rekrunner.

Lance Armstrong has still never been sanctioned for failing a doping test, just like bolt, Farah, Radcliffe.. rekrunner circuitous logic therefore dictates Armstrong never doped.

That is a valid viewpoint as long as everyone agrees it's no longer a sport. It's reality TV/wwe. But, rekrunner-types, the IOC, iAAF, insist on pretending it is still a sport despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Salazar will walk away unscathed. Doping is okay by the IAAF. Just bring money and viewers like a Mo, Bolt, Radcliffe, Salazar and Nike.

Here, let's throw in another cliché from The Boss: "you can't start a fire without a spark". Only one example? Here are a bunch of recent victims of LRC forum smoke blowing, that lack the spark and fuel to start a fire in the real world of anti-doping enforcement:Mo Farah, Galen Rupp, Matt Centrowitz, Evan Jager, Usain Bolt, Sebastien Coe, Paula Radcliffe, Hicham El Guerrouj, Taoufik Makhloufi, Genzebe Dibaba, Turenesh Dibaba, Renato Canova, Dr. Gabrielle Rosa and son Federico, Claudio Berardelli, Dr. Hans Müller-Wohlfahrt, Dr. Martial Saugy, Haile Gebreselassie, Daniel Komen, Kenenisa Bekele, and all East Africans in the "EPO-era", and last but not least, Jama Aden, currently on trial for trafficking non-doping vitamins, against Spanish law, but not WADA's anti-doping rules.None of these examples rise up to the evidentiary bar that existed with BALCO and Armstrong.Regarding BALCO, I'm not aware there were ever any BALCO deniers from the "head-in-the-sand" gang. The spark here was the mysterious syringe sent to USADA filled with "The Clear", and the fire blazed pretty quickly.In the case of Lance Armstrong, the sparks were flying after L'Equipe published its story in 2005 of six failed EPO tests linked to Lance Armstrong, and David Walsh publishing "L.A. Confidential" in 2003, with juicy first hand accounts from former employees like Emma O'Reilly, describing the teams reaction to 4 failed tests in 1999, solved with a postdated prescription, and other stories of frequent courier services, and then the depositions taken under the penalty of perjury during the SCA-Tailwinds arbitration in 2005, including former friends describing the 1995 hospital scene.

rupp-certified saladbra wrote:

Rekrunner, in the history of doping in sport, can you provide one example of when this much smoke had NOT come with fire?

Both BALCO and Lance Armstrong (also Nike-supported/protected operations) barely had this much smoke until the days before the fire was confirmed to the satisfaction of the head-in-the-sand gang, many of whom were defending Amrstrong with the same rhetoric you apply here.

Please answer the question above directly and without obfuscation. One example.

USADA expressed a strong belief that a rule violation likely occurred in their leaked memo.

Drug cheats out forever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

nothing that clears the higher bar of linking Salazar to an actual anti-doping rule violation.

No linking? USADA said otherwise in their leaked memo.

Hey rekrunner I hope you are enjoying the conversation with yourself.

"When we speak to God we are praying. When God speaks to us we are schizophrenic."

I would agree there were a lot of facts arguing against a clean Lance Armstrong, who should have been sanctioned as early as 1999 for four failed tests. It is not just failed tests that can lead to a sanction.Nothing about Armstrong compares with the set of facts surrounding Bolt, Farah, or Radcliffe.If Salazar walks unscathed, it's because USADA could not bring a case of doping, or any other anti-doping rule violation, despite all of the "facts" combined with the witness testimony of 19 cooperating witnesses.Nike and the UCI couldn't stop USADA from convicting Lance. Not sure why you think that Nike and the IAAF will try to do this for Salazar.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Drug cheats out forever wrote:

No linking? USADA said otherwise in their leaked memo.

Facts are fungible to rekrunner.

Lance Armstrong has still never been sanctioned for failing a doping test, just like bolt, Farah, Radcliffe.. rekrunner circuitous logic therefore dictates Armstrong never doped.

That is a valid viewpoint as long as everyone agrees it's no longer a sport. It's reality TV/wwe. But, rekrunner-types, the IOC, iAAF, insist on pretending it is still a sport despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Salazar will walk away unscathed. Doping is okay by the IAAF. Just bring money and viewers like a Mo, Bolt, Radcliffe, Salazar and Nike.

He's looking more and more like the ageing King Lear:

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/896809050054287360

Editor's note: We've changed the thread title as it was misleading. The thread was in initially entitled, "Rowbury Throws Alberto Under The Bus"

We've changed the thread title as it was misleading. The thread was in initially entitled, "Rowbury Throws Alberto Under The Bus"