How did Jamaica go from 11 medals last year to only 4 this year?

TrackCoach wrote:

Can you imagine what it was be like if Dr. Shirley, or a local Kenyan, Ethiopian or Botswanan federation actually busted a high profile athlete. When one of these 3rd world high profile athletes are busted, it is always done so by independent testing, whereas in the U.S., all of our dopers were caught by USADA.

Yep. Unimpeachable USADA where tainted beef and passionate kissing are excuse enough to overturn positives.

El Keniano wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

Can you imagine what it was be like if Dr. Shirley, or a local Kenyan, Ethiopian or Botswanan federation actually busted a high profile athlete. When one of these 3rd world high profile athletes are busted, it is always done so by independent testing, whereas in the U.S., all of our dopers were caught by USADA.

Yep. Unimpeachable USADA where tainted beef and passionate kissing are excuse enough to overturn positives.

USADA is not perfect, but if you look at the list of USA athletes who have been busted, you can't possibly say they have a problem catching and banning athletes. If they bust a Tyson Gay; why would they have a problem issuing a ban for tainted beef and passionate kissing. They could have simply ignored the positive. Btw, if you do your research on the Wilson case, it is unfortunate that they issued a ban and it is pretty obvious USADA made the right decision.

Yep, but unfortunately he is just one. I'm not saying everyone should be Bolt either, just that among those runners it would be so damn easy to stand out and be more interesting.

Yea yea, why don't you blame Hilary. The point is that USA athletes were actually busted.

The second POINT is that the non-championship-tiered athletes were running amazing times. Weir was a bronze medalist in the 200 and this year couldn't get out of the first round. There was example after example. They weren't tested and so they got a lot faster.

Jamaica has always had championship level athletes. But they never had like 20 of them as they did in the London Olympics. Now they are back to normal.

Last, HGH ... look at the pictures of Bolts teeth in the past and now. That doesn't happen on their own.

Biological passport is working. Good for WADA.

The only comparison worth making between these two nations is their lack of morals and propensity to cheat. Both track legacies built on the back of doping.

Their talent is aging out, nothing more nor less. They had a golden age with Powell, Bolt, Yohan, and a few others, but as these athletes got older and passed their primes, no new world-beating talent emerged.

The BRG wrote:

Their talent is aging out, nothing more nor less. They had a golden age with Powell, Bolt, Yohan, and a few others, but as these athletes got older and passed their primes, no new world-beating talent emerged.

Perhaps the golden area is over, which was mostly Bolt. They still have some good young athletes in the pipeline. Keep in the mind that great athletes like Thompson and SAFP came come from out of nowhere, so you can never count Jamaica out.

Barakus Obama wrote:

Vancomycin wrote:

Ummmm.... ever heard of Ezekiel Kemboi?

Yep, but unfortunately he is just one. I'm not saying everyone should be Bolt either, just that among those runners it would be so damn easy to stand out and be more interesting.

Care to mention one (just ONE!) athlete from your country that stands out? Europeans are the most boring interviews in sport. Listening to a media-trained European sports star interview like Roger Federer or Maria Sharapova with their flat, non-inflected English droning on and on is the height of tedium.

El Keniano wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Yep, but unfortunately he is just one. I'm not saying everyone should be Bolt either, just that among those runners it would be so damn easy to stand out and be more interesting.

Care to mention one (just ONE!) athlete from your country that stands out? Europeans are the most boring interviews in sport. Listening to a media-trained European sports star interview like Roger Federer or Maria Sharapova with their flat, non-inflected English droning on and on is the height of tedium.

Hey, Roger is sacred. He is above criticism. And very polite, a humble man that is in no way obsessed with 💰 😉. It's a bit like me going to East Africa and bad mouthing Kip Keino or Abebe Bikila. As for Maria Sharapova, go right ahead and criticise her, she is a b1tch and only Jamin will defend her here 😂.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Care to mention one (just ONE!) athlete from your country that stands out? Europeans are the most boring interviews in sport. Listening to a media-trained European sports star interview like Roger Federer or Maria Sharapova with their flat, non-inflected English droning on and on is the height of tedium.

Hey, Roger is sacred. He is above criticism. And very polite, a humble man that is in no way obsessed with 💰 😉. It's a bit like me going to East Africa and bad mouthing Kip Keino or Abebe Bikila. As for Maria Sharapova, go right ahead and criticise her, she is a b1tch and only Jamin will defend her here 😂.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy. But my point, all those interviews sound exactly the same. So a bit rich for someone to go after Kenyans for not having Bolt's personality. Take decathlon winner Kevin Mayer who's being touted as the new big star of French and European athletics: Flatest interview ever!

El Keniano wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Yep, but unfortunately he is just one. I'm not saying everyone should be Bolt either, just that among those runners it would be so damn easy to stand out and be more interesting.

Care to mention one (just ONE!) athlete from your country that stands out? Europeans are the most boring interviews in sport. Listening to a media-trained European sports star interview like Roger Federer or Maria Sharapova with their flat, non-inflected English droning on and on is the height of tedium.

Always so interesting to see you take any comment about Kenya that isn't highly positive as a full on attack. Relax dude. The reasons I'm saying this about African athlete is:

- For westerners they are boring. They come and go, they all look "the same", often doesn't celebrate or show the same amount of emotions and joy as western athletes. You can't really disagree there. Compare to that guy Warholm.

- The main reason I'm saying this about african athletes are because they are able to do it. The same reason Bolt was, because they are so good. American athletes are fairly good at this, british athletes are not bad but they are just rarely good enough for it to matter. One of the few times I've seen the amazing Rudisha (see compliments, are you calm now kiddo?) show pure joy is after his win in London 2012.

- Want a good comparison? Football players, say what you want about them but they celebrate, show emotion and are not neutral boring athletes.

My point is: It would be so damn easy for an african athlete to stand out, especially at middle/long distance. I had hope for a certain Ndiku, too bad he wasn't in the WCs.

Federer is just a calm classy act. And were they all like him I would have agreed tennis had a problem. Thats one of the reasons I like Novak. Federer plays amazing, but off court Novak is far more entertaining.

El Keniano wrote:

I'm sure he's a lovely guy. But my point, all those interviews sound exactly the same. So a bit rich for someone to go after Kenyans for not having Bolt's personality. Take decathlon winner Kevin Mayer who's being touted as the new big star of French and European athletics: Flatest interview ever!

Didnt see his interview, and the interview isn't the most important thing. But Mayer showed confidence and emotions and cockiness during the competition. He stood out for someone wathcing but not having a clue. Track and field needs that.

Regarding interveiews, nobody can beat Bosse. Perhaps Shelly Ann after 2008.

I was actually joking about Federer. Novak gets a hard rap in the media. Where is Ndiku? That rap song is surprisingly catchy. Really runners are pretty boring people at elite level irrespective of race because training takes up all their time. I recall Joachim Cruz saying to us that his cousin always wanted him to go out drinking & clubbing and he would always turn him down, his cousin would say that "you need to celebrate a little" and his response was that he celebrates by winning Olympic medals. Women tennis players on the otherhand in general are pretty terrible people.

El Keniano wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Hey, Roger is sacred. He is above criticism. And very polite, a humble man that is in no way obsessed with 💰 😉. It's a bit like me going to East Africa and bad mouthing Kip Keino or Abebe Bikila. As for Maria Sharapova, go right ahead and criticise her, she is a b1tch and only Jamin will defend her here 😂.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy. But my point, all those interviews sound exactly the same. So a bit rich for someone to go after Kenyans for not having Bolt's personality. Take decathlon winner Kevin Mayer who's being touted as the new big star of French and European athletics: Flatest interview ever!

Bolt has a unique psyche, his successor must break records but is unlikely to be as outlandish. Only WvN and Kipchoge right now are capable of breaking world records.

This thread is such shit.

1. Many top athletes were either injured at trials (Asafa, VCB, Bailey Cole), missed the team thru a bad race (Jenieve Russell) or injured in the buildup (Yohan, Elaine).

2. Are we still falsely equating supplements containing a stimulant that was similar in structured to a banned substance that attracted a 6 month ban to what Gay and Gatlin and countless other Americans did?

3. Who are these Jamaicans who have been banned for steroids etc? Name three locally trained ones.

4. Jamaica had a disastrous wc but there are internal factors and things happen. Elaine didn't run relays. The mile relay team suffered from an injury as did Bolt. Yohan had a potentially career ending injury and it's remarkable he's back.

5. I saw Weir mentioned. He's a slacker and wasted his talent.

6. There were 3 fourth places including Dacres in the Discus. That was an expected medal. There was Levy who hit his hurdle. Danielle Williams who had a terrible semi.

Do you ppl know anything about the sport or do you just like to come spout uninformed garbage?

Jamaica will be back. All these talks of no testing etc are lies and just ridiculous. Anybody who has tested positively for any stimulant have been at the trials and they've been excessively pursued.

Bolt is 31 and retired from Rio in his mind. His body showed expected wear and tear. Where is Ryan Bailey btw? Morons.

Llemar wrote:

This thread is such shit.

1. Many top athletes were either injured at trials (Asafa, VCB, Bailey Cole), missed the team thru a bad race (Jenieve Russell) or injured in the buildup (Yohan, Elaine).

Yeah 'Injured at trials' and 'injured in the build up'.

Off the dope.

U.S. medal dominance at worlds could reflect doping cleanup in track

Athletes improve and have breakout seasons and sometimes unknown athletes come on the scene running fast times. However, In 2008 a mathematician stated that the incredible and sudden success of one nation, like Jamaica had at the 2008 Olympics is a statistical anomaly to the enth degree. It was like hitting the lottery twice in one week. Virtual unknown sprinter SAFP wins the 100m running nearly a half second faster than she did the year before; Meleane Walker runs the 400h nearly as fast as her 400m PR; previously a 200/400m sprinter Usain Bolt shatters the 100m WR easing up at the finish line; Bridgette Foster Hilton had retired the previous year, wins the 100h, Carter, Frater, Stewart, Facey, Ennis-Hill...it was as if the stars aligned all at once for an entire nation. VCB had been Jamaica's best sprinter by far for several years. In 2007 VCB ran 10.89 and no other female had run sub-11. Veronica who lives and trains in the U.S., went home for the '08 JA Olympic trails and didn't even make the team in the 100m. A few years latter, it was Blake, Mullins, Weir and Kemar Bailey-Cole and Kaliese Spencer running incredible times. What was going during this time? No drug testing -to- building towards drug testing -to- attempts at drug testing -to- some drug testing (albeit questionable) -to- actual drug testing in 2017 courtesy of WADA.

Coach Mills and Francis attributed the '08 incredible success to staying home and training in Jamaica. I am still waiting to read their book to learn about their amazing methods. Or, unless staying at home is code language for avoiding drug testing. If staying at home is the explanation for the precipitous en mass inclined, what is the explanation for the precipitous en mass decline. With the onset of drug testing (albeit questionable) -to-'actual' and independent testing, the 2017 WC results speak volumes. Now, many of the aforementioned athletes have either fallen off the map and/or their performances have taken a stark decline. With all of the said, there are valid explanations for some individual Jamaican athlete's success in 2008 and subsequent decline in 2017. There is no hard evidence of systematic doping in Jamaica and Jamaican certain don't need drugs to run fast. Jamaicans have been winning global championship medals since the 1940s, but the success over the last decade looks like a duck to me.

TrackCoach wrote:

U.S. medal dominance at worlds could reflect doping cleanup in track

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2017/08/14/track-world-championships-usa-medals-clean-sport/564671001/

Coach Mills and Francis attributed the '08 incredible success to staying home and training in Jamaica. I am still waiting to read their book to learn about their amazing methods. Or, unless staying at home is code language for avoiding drug testing.

➡there is a coded laguage for all of this success, "Lots of extra training."🏃

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

U.S. medal dominance at worlds could reflect doping cleanup in track

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2017/08/14/track-world-championships-usa-medals-clean-sport/564671001/

Coach Mills and Francis attributed the '08 incredible success to staying home and training in Jamaica. I am still waiting to read their book to learn about their amazing methods. Or, unless staying at home is code language for avoiding drug testing.

➡there is a coded laguage for all of this success, "Lots of extra training."🏃

There is only so much you can improve from season to season...way too many JA athletes had a massive improvement from '07 to '08.