Which training book should I buy?

Coach wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

I haven't read that one, but this is exactly how I'd describe Daniels. I don't bother with his proposed schedules -- the info as presented in the book is plenty for me to create my own.

With all do respect, I disagree with your interpretation of Daniels. I find his block periods too dogmatic. His paces might be great to follow but the idea that you need to work on one particular area is paramount in his "scientific" method of training. I always felt that with Daniels there is less room for tinkering and differentiation. To me not all kids with similar times have the same needs but Daniels would have the train the same. Glad to read that your experience has been better.

Thank you everyone for the responses. Coach, if not Daniels, what book do you recommend?

I've used Daniels and it worked for my HS 3000/3200 meter runners. However I didn't have success with these runners also racing the 800. Perhaps I didnt apply his method properly. I mentioned the Benson/Ray book before and stated I found it less dogmatic and gives you a variety of ideas. I have plenty of books and find it difficult to recommend just one. Vin lananna outlined his program in a clinic a long time ago and I refer to them. If there was one method i tried to follow it was his. Needless to say he references Daniels.

Smoove wrote:

Incontrovertible evidence of your genius!!!!!

Hey! Don't attack Coach J.S. Don't you know how impotent he is as a coach? His training system works because it's not unnecessarily hard.

I was about to suggest this, also. I have the 1999 edition. Do you know if there were later updates? It does cover 5K through the marathon, with a chapter on cross-country, as well. (Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas)As I recall, many of the schedules alternated vO2max and lactate threshold workouts, week to week. I had great success modifying the plans to a nine-day "week" so I could include vO2max and LT workouts in EVERY 9-day "week". The only trade-off was that the long runs and "secondary long runs" were every nine days instead of every seven days. I actually found that to be a good thing.I have this book too and its a nice resource. Maybe there are newer books out, but it gives a good overview of the physiological demands of each distance and theory on how to stimulate improvement in each area. Also has basic info on training, how to avoid getting hurt/dehydrated, etc. Finally, it has some training plans for 5K- marathon +XC. Best, for each training plan, it has three options in terms of mileage. For example, for 5 km, it has a less than 20 mpw option, less than 40 mpw option, and 40+ mpw option. That way you can pick a decent training plan based on the race you are doing and the time/mileage that you can dedicate to train.

Allen1959 wrote:

faketrollname23 wrote:

Road Racing for Serious Runners

I was about to suggest this, also. I have the 1999 edition. Do you know if there were later updates? It does cover 5K through the marathon, with a chapter on cross-country, as well. (Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas)

As I recall, many of the schedules alternated vO2max and lactate threshold workouts, week to week. I had great success modifying the plans to a nine-day "week" so I could include vO2max and LT workouts in EVERY 9-day "week". The only trade-off was that the long runs and "secondary long runs" were every nine days instead of every seven days. I actually found that to be a good thing.

Lenny Leonard wrote:I've read just about every book mentioned thus far, but as far as 5k-marathon and just general philosophy, my personal favorite is probably:

"Run Faster from the 5k to the Marathon: How to be Your Own Best Coach" by Brad Hudson and Matt Fitzgerald

Instead of saying "do this for 18 weeks and run the time you want" this provides the runner with a valuable toolkit for tailoring their own training to their needs.

+1

If I had to choose only one English language running book, it would definitely be Hudson's.

On the other hand, I am not very impressed by (any of) Daniels' book(s), but I see I am in the minority here.

Coach wrote:

I've used Daniels and it worked for my HS 3000/3200 meter runners. However I didn't have success with these runners also racing the 800. Perhaps I didnt apply his method properly. I mentioned the Benson/Ray book before and stated I found it less dogmatic and gives you a variety of ideas. I have plenty of books and find it difficult to recommend just one. Vin lananna outlined his program in a clinic a long time ago and I refer to them. If there was one method i tried to follow it was his. Needless to say he references Daniels.

IMHO Daniels works best 1500-half. The 800 and marathon are their own events relative to the other distances, but 1500-half training is nearly the same, with relatively small tweaks at the extremes.

I've never read Pfitz's Road Racing for Serious Runners, but based on Advanced Marathoning I can't see how it could miss. Probably not coincidentally, he also heavily references the principles taught by Daniels throughout AM.

Where I'm from we have an extensive indoor HS track season. Transitioning from XC to indoor using Daniels was rough especially When you have to race 4x800s in December. Also in order to qualify for invitationals in late April and May you'll need to run fast indoors as rough weather makes it hard to run fast in late March. Using Daniels I had a 4x800 team run 8:01 in May that couldn't break 8:38 in February. That team wasn't invited to any meet.

Healthy Intelligent Training

I agree that Daniels don`t have the best approach to 800m and marathon. But his best individual paces and predicted times is correct for the marathon. Canova`s approach for the marathon with fast long runs or in segments fast is better as a guide. For 800m I have a better approach myself.

COACH J.S

I disagree with respect to the marathon - I have followed Daniels approach to marathon training in my only three marathons, averaging a 7th place male masters finish at NYC (7th), Chicago (1st) and Boston (13th - 3rd in 45 and up).

And that was on the more conservative, non-elite Daniels training plan.

I would agree that his plan could be fined tuned to include a bit more work at marathon pace though. But I hardly consider that a fatal flaw.

The Long Hard Road - Ron Hill

Its not a training book but details all his training and shows what it really takes to get to the top

ukathleticscoach wrote:

The Long Hard Road - Ron Hill

Its not a training book but details all his training and shows what it really takes to get to the top

I agree that book was very exciting to read. A classy runner that worked fulltime but even that reached the top. :)

Not yet mentioned wrote:

Healthy Intelligent Training

Good book with plenty of good info to glean. But if buying just one book I'd still go with Daniels. His is the natural progression of the work Lydiard started. They're similar in a lot of ways, Daniels just refined it through study.

New-age Lydiard (like HIT) essentially adds Daniels' R pace, which I believe was missing in the old school. Correct me if I'm wrong. These days there's not a lot of difference between Lydiard and Daniels.

Sort of leads to asking why settle for just one book? I bought HIT, Daniels v2, Advanced Marathoning, and Better Training for Distance Runners off Amazon for pretty cheap ($30-$40 total?). It's a third of the cost of a pair of shoes and well worth the investment.

Get Hudson's book: Run Faster; other posters have already said why.

Daniels' book is best for coaches of teams; it's geared to make coaching runners of different levels and abilities easier, and it's really effective in that way.

But as an individual you would do better with Hudson's book.

For the big picture with all the physiological detail, I really liked Steve Magness's Science of Running.

It is good to know the physiological details but not neccessary. Canova was told to say in an interwiev : " I don`t know exactly how it functions in details .....but I know how to handle the paces. "

Not a Hobby Jogger wrote:

Say I can only buy one book on training. Which is the best book to buy for training distances from 5k-marathon?

Advice for a book 800m-marathon?

Lenny Leonard wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

There isn't one book that will cover that range. But for 5k-half:

Daniels' Training Formula v2

For the marathon you can't miss with Advanced Marathoning.

I've read just about every book mentioned thus far, but as far as 5k-marathon and just general philosophy, my personal favorite is probably:

"Run Faster from the 5k to the Marathon: How to be Your Own Best Coach" by Brad Hudson and Matt Fitzgerald

Instead of saying "do this for 18 weeks and run the time you want" this provides the runner with a valuable toolkit for tailoring their own training to their needs.

I agree. I have most of the books and have used them to guide my own masters training. Glover and Glove is great for somebody new to the path; meat and potatoes stuff, but a little dated at this point.

Brad Hudson's book really worked for me. It just made sense. It had easy to comprehend core principles, such as: early in the season, do long easy stuff and short fast stuff. Bit by bit, bring them together in increasingly sustained, race-pace intervals that build to a very hard workout 8-10 days before your goal race. He adds subtleties, all of which make sense, like aerobic support pace for certain race distances.

I really enjoyed Michael Sandrock's RUNNING TOUGH, with its capsule portraits of great runners and their key workouts. "Banging it out" on the long runs became a favorite phrase of mine. I ended up creating my own version of the Mono(ghetti) Fartlek: a three-mile tempo that consists of alternating hard 400s and 400 floats (backing off to a jog, then bringing it back up to tempo pace before the next interval), with the final 800 at a hard but sustainable pace, 5K to 10K.

Kevin Beck's RUN STRONG also provided a lot of knowledge and inspiration.

But Hudson's book, of all of them, had the single biggest effect, pulling everything together and helping me achieve my personal bests.

After the endorsements here, I'm getting Hudson's book. Already have Fitz (Advanced Marathoning), Daniels, (Formula, 3rd ed), and Squires (Improve your Running).

From what I've gathered here, I think I'll prefer Hudson's training. Seems very sensible and straightforward.