+1
+1
Yep.
This sounds rude, but work hard and become not just a teacher, but an administrator. You'll still make $$ than her but you'll be in a position of power.
A lot of my female friends have problems finding guys in their 20s and 30s--they have PhDs and Master's and are socially gifted but the guys they want to date make less $$ than they do. So most of the females view the guys as nothing more than friends. The guys get it too and don't want to marry rich females.
Hooper, beware the Thucydides’s Trap.
What is that? What does it have to do with your situation? Well in its purest articulation it is dense and unilluminating. But reduced to a simpler form it loses little of its insight and enables prudent decisions
First Thucydides was an historian of Ancient Greece. His most famous and influential work was the Peloponnesian War chronicling a 30 year conflict between Athens (and its empire) and Sparta and its allies.
Sparta and friends were the dominant power in the Greek peninsula. Athens was the new kid on the block. Athens proved its worthiness (and revealed itself as a threat to Sparta) by ejecting the remnants of Persian influence in Greece. Sparta, although still in ascendancy, felt threatened by emerging presence of Athens. It launched a three stage war spanning nearly 3 decades against Athens.
Ultimately in a climactic battle, Sparta sank Athens'navy, ending Athens threat to Spartan hegemony. It achieved its TACTICAL objective. However the cost to Sparta and is allies (the "Peloponnesian League") was devastating. The savagery of the war and exposure of this savagery to Greek society unraveled kinship and community across the Greek peninsulla. All of Greece became vulnerable to outsiders culminating in the Macedonian conquest. Prior to that Sparta's ALLY Thebes defeated and humbled Sparta. In the end Sparta won the battle (defeating Athens) at the cost of losing its strategic objective (maintaining hegemony in Greece)
The Thucydides’s Trap does not counsel meekness. If Sparta and Athens were to avoid a mutually destructive war, it would required huge painful adjustments in attitudes and actions on the part not just of the challenger but also the challenged. Neither was capable of that so Greece was lost.
Don't approach your Athens in such a way as to destroy your marriage in the process. Be prepared to accommodate but manage the rising power of Athens. Whatever you do remember your objective is to come out of this with the best possible relationship with your wife and daughters. Don't win the battle and lose the war.
Reads like a novel wrote:
Wow! Nicely done. Anymore series coming up?..;)
Dr. Hooper had already consulted a dissolution attorney who specializes in high asset divorces before Hooper posted on Letsrun. Perhaps one of her drinking buddies from the neighborhood divorce mill illuminated her legal situation. If not a partner in her medical practice educated her. Physicians have from time immemorial made it a habit of dipping the company ink pen into non-company ink wells and paid the price for their indiscretion. They pass on their cumulative wisdom to the next generation of cheaters. Regardless of the source, Dr. Hooper learned from her lawyer that her marriage must to be treated like a failing business. It might survive but she must be prepared to act promptly to protect her interests in the event it cannot.
Her attorney has developed the architecture of a dissolution proposal that could be presented to the Court in the event Hooper filed for divorce. But when Hooper posted his whiny self serving take he purged Dr. Hooper of the lingering sentimental nostalgia she felt for Hooper. The plan’s (now part of a dissolution filing) central feature is that a year from now Dr. Hooper and Michael are tenants in common in the Hooper home and the corresponding “parenting plan†has the Hooper children residing in the home as their primary domicile. More about Hooper's fate later.
Colorado is a "no fault" divorce state, Colorado courts do NOT permit introduction of evidence of adultery ("marital misconduct") in a dissolution proceeding. Dr. Hooper's sexual relationship with Michael during her marriage to Hooper, in Colorado (and a significant majority of states), is IRRELVANT to the divorce process. No fault divorce courts no longer serve as moral arbiters of marriages. As set forth in the next paragraph they have a more restricted three part mission.
Dr. Hooper's lawyer is working up a dissolution proposal to optimize her position pursuant to the three objectives prescribed under Colorado dissolution law: (1) a parenting plan advancing "the best interests of the children," (including financial support from both parents); (2) equitable ( as opposed to equal) allocation of marital property, and (3) provision for a jump start for a spouse who, because of their marital role, lost opportunities for employment or independent income (formerly 'alimony' now 'maintenance').
The mediator driven "culture" of no fault divorce law makes the well being of minor children of the dissolving family its principal concern. Phrases like "child custody" have been replaced with "parenting rights and responsibilities" or "parenting plan" which structure parents’ relationships with minor children. When minor children are involved, optimizing the continuity and stability of the children's lives is the central objective of dissolution practice.
Keeping the children in the family home, and therefore the same school, neighborhood, friends, extra-curricular activities etc. is virtually an irrebuttable presumption to court appointed mediators that make decisive recommendations to the judge. Marital property division and maintenance decisions will recede and conform to the parenting plan. Dr. Hooper's attorney fashioned a dissolution plan that minimizes the dislocation in the Hooper kids' lives based upon the following facts:
The Hoopers own a house apparently with a pool in Boulder. It is likely worth $1.0 million in that white hot market. In the past 5 years, the average sale price of a Boulder home increased by 50%. The house is the primary marital asset. Assume that today the Hooper's have $800K in equity. Under Colorado marital property law, the initial presumption is that half goes to each spouse.
If the first objective of Colorado dissolution law is to keep the kids in the family home/schools/neighborhood/network ('best interest of children'), either Mr or Dr. Hooper would have enormous incentive to buy out the other's equity ($400K). Adding another $200K owed on the existing mortgage, who is more likely to be able to service a $600K mortgage: a physician with a well established practice or a part time substitute teacher? Dr. Hooper gets the house and primary a parent status.
Nonetheless this buyout will be a tall order even for Dr. Hooper. Added to car payments and medical practice expenses (going back as far as college/med school loans for which Hooper will end up partially responsible post-divorce because they are a marital debt), she will probably be testing the limits of her debt to income mortgage ratio. Who might be willing and able to step up and help finance Dr. Hooper's buyout?
Her humble midwestern family doesn't understand the Boulder real estate market or this kind of financial problem and certainly doesn't have the needed capital. But her paramour Michael maybe has a condo he could sell and an income he could contribute. This is how you get his motorcycle parked in the driveway of the Hooper homestead and Mr. and Dr. Biker displayed as the new names on the deed of the Hooper estate by summer of 2018.
Reduce (or increase) the house valuation, the financial dynamic of no fault marital dissolution doesn't change for Hooper. Child centered dissolution law drives parties to this kind of calculation. Of course, if Michael has a family of his own (or more likely an ex-wife and kids) he might not be positioned to provide much assistance. But if he is a free agent, well he is analogous to what the Knicks are looking for when trying to unload Carmelo Anthony's contract. Dr. Hooper needs a third party to step in and help with her "salary cap" problems/income-capital shortage to overcome the debt to income ratio obstacle that this kind of massive refinance erects.
Other marital property any maintenance questions create a variety of subplots for this melodrama. Elements of Dr. Hooper's medical practice are martial property and Hooper is entitled to a share of its value. However, physicians have perfected the art of sheltering most of their practice assets from soon to be ex-spouses. Nonetheless to protect her business assets (and those of her partners at her medical practice) or minimize the alimony/maintenance award, Dr. Hooper may have to convey to Hooper her half of her retirement plan that did not already go to Hooper in the initial marital property allocation.
Presumptively in a 16 year Colorado marriage, Hooper would be entitled to up to 8 years of maintenance/alimony in the neighborhood of 40% of Dr. Hooper's income (minus half of his). But that is really only the starting point. Given his housing and retirement windfalls, that he has a college degree and is immediately employable as a teacher and the fact that he is responsible for child support and half of his ex’s student loans, he will not realize anywhere near the presumptive maintenance payout. Further, the mediator and Court will also loop back to the plight of Dr. Hooper struggling to keep the Hooper children in the family home (with the benefits of the village that raises them) and reduce the length and amount of his maintenance.
Dr. Hooper’s attorney is not without tools to hollow out Hooper’s marital property distribution and maintenance claims. Those claims are in part contingent upon Hooper demonstrating how much of a homemaker he really was. If dinner was routinely takeout, Merry Maids came for two hours every Tuesday, the kids attended extensive preschool and afterschool programs, the gardeners came for three hours every other week (all financed by Dr. Hooper’s salary) while Hooper devoted substantial energy to training for the Leadville Trail etc. each year, his claims to marital assets thin quickly. He has barely worked for most of his adult life, his attorney will warn him a judge/mediator will likely shave substantially his presumptive marital property distribution and maintenance claims. Hooper will not vigorously contest Dr. Hooper’s attorney’s plan.
But there will be other consolations for Hooper. He will vicariously experience how his soon to be teenage daughter will be reacting to dad being gone because mom discovered her inner sluttishness. Teen age girls look for reasons to hate their parents and love drama. This is a trifecta for her: Mom, the infidel, has modeled yielding to your libido rather than adhering social conventions, Michael the Biker is Satan’s serpent and together they have rendered Dad a homeless waif.
Further dad/Hooper is still going to have a substantial home equity payout, a well funded retirement, a modest maintenance stipend and the pleasure of watching his ex enjoy life with Boulder's elite with a crushing house payment, perpetually petulant children, no prospect of retiring before she turns 70 and a significant other who has a history of demonstrating little respect for the sanctity of marriage living in a neighborhood of recently divorced women.
Before Midnight wrote:
Reads like a novel wrote:Wow! Nicely done. Anymore series coming up?..;)
Dr. Hooper had already consulted a dissolution attorney who specializes in high asset divorces before Hooper posted on Letsrun. Perhaps one of her drinking buddies from the neighborhood divorce mill illuminated her legal situation. If not a partner in her medical practice educated her. Physicians have from time immemorial made it a habit of dipping the company ink pen into non-company ink wells and paid the price for their indiscretion. They pass on their cumulative wisdom to the next generation of cheaters. Regardless of the source, Dr. Hooper learned from her lawyer that her marriage must to be treated like a failing business. It might survive but she must be prepared to act promptly to protect her interests in the event it cannot.
Her attorney has developed the architecture of a dissolution proposal that could be presented to the Court in the event Hooper filed for divorce. But when Hooper posted his whiny self serving take he purged Dr. Hooper of the lingering sentimental nostalgia she felt for Hooper. The plan’s (now part of a dissolution filing) central feature is that a year from now Dr. Hooper and Michael are tenants in common in the Hooper home and the corresponding “parenting plan†has the Hooper children residing in the home as their primary domicile. More about Hooper's fate later.
Colorado is a "no fault" divorce state, Colorado courts do NOT permit introduction of evidence of adultery ("marital misconduct") in a dissolution proceeding. Dr. Hooper's sexual relationship with Michael during her marriage to Hooper, in Colorado (and a significant majority of states), is IRRELVANT to the divorce process. No fault divorce courts no longer serve as moral arbiters of marriages. As set forth in the next paragraph they have a more restricted three part mission.
Dr. Hooper's lawyer is working up a dissolution proposal to optimize her position pursuant to the three objectives prescribed under Colorado dissolution law: (1) a parenting plan advancing "the best interests of the children," (including financial support from both parents); (2) equitable ( as opposed to equal) allocation of marital property, and (3) provision for a jump start for a spouse who, because of their marital role, lost opportunities for employment or independent income (formerly 'alimony' now 'maintenance').
The mediator driven "culture" of no fault divorce law makes the well being of minor children of the dissolving family its principal concern. Phrases like "child custody" have been replaced with "parenting rights and responsibilities" or "parenting plan" which structure parents’ relationships with minor children. When minor children are involved, optimizing the continuity and stability of the children's lives is the central objective of dissolution practice.
Keeping the children in the family home, and therefore the same school, neighborhood, friends, extra-curricular activities etc. is virtually an irrebuttable presumption to court appointed mediators that make decisive recommendations to the judge. Marital property division and maintenance decisions will recede and conform to the parenting plan. Dr. Hooper's attorney fashioned a dissolution plan that minimizes the dislocation in the Hooper kids' lives based upon the following facts:
The Hoopers own a house apparently with a pool in Boulder. It is likely worth $1.0 million in that white hot market. In the past 5 years, the average sale price of a Boulder home increased by 50%. The house is the primary marital asset. Assume that today the Hooper's have $800K in equity. Under Colorado marital property law, the initial presumption is that half goes to each spouse.
If the first objective of Colorado dissolution law is to keep the kids in the family home/schools/neighborhood/network ('best interest of children'), either Mr or Dr. Hooper would have enormous incentive to buy out the other's equity ($400K). Adding another $200K owed on the existing mortgage, who is more likely to be able to service a $600K mortgage: a physician with a well established practice or a part time substitute teacher? Dr. Hooper gets the house and primary a parent status.
Nonetheless this buyout will be a tall order even for Dr. Hooper. Added to car payments and medical practice expenses (going back as far as college/med school loans for which Hooper will end up partially responsible post-divorce because they are a marital debt), she will probably be testing the limits of her debt to income mortgage ratio. Who might be willing and able to step up and help finance Dr. Hooper's buyout?
Her humble midwestern family doesn't understand the Boulder real estate market or this kind of financial problem and certainly doesn't have the needed capital. But her paramour Michael maybe has a condo he could sell and an income he could contribute. This is how you get his motorcycle parked in the driveway of the Hooper homestead and Mr. and Dr. Biker displayed as the new names on the deed of the Hooper estate by summer of 2018.
Reduce (or increase) the house valuation, the financial dynamic of no fault marital dissolution doesn't change for Hooper. Child centered dissolution law drives parties to this kind of calculation. Of course, if Michael has a family of his own (or more likely an ex-wife and kids) he might not be positioned to provide much assistance. But if he is a free agent, well he is analogous to what the Knicks are looking for when trying to unload Carmelo Anthony's contract. Dr. Hooper needs a third party to step in and help with her "salary cap" problems/income-capital shortage to overcome the debt to income ratio obstacle that this kind of massive refinance erects.
Other marital property any maintenance questions create a variety of subplots for this melodrama. Elements of Dr. Hooper's medical practice are martial property and Hooper is entitled to a share of its value. However, physicians have perfected the art of sheltering most of their practice assets from soon to be ex-spouses. Nonetheless to protect her business assets (and those of her partners at her medical practice) or minimize the alimony/maintenance award, Dr. Hooper may have to convey to Hooper her half of her retirement plan that did not already go to Hooper in the initial marital property allocation.
Presumptively in a 16 year Colorado marriage, Hooper would be entitled to up to 8 years of maintenance/alimony in the neighborhood of 40% of Dr. Hooper's income (minus half of his). But that is really only the starting point. Given his housing and retirement windfalls, that he has a college degree and is immediately employable as a teacher and the fact that he is responsible for child support and half of his ex’s student loans, he will not realize anywhere near the presumptive maintenance payout. Further, the mediator and Court will also loop back to the plight of Dr. Hooper struggling to keep the Hooper children in the family home (with the benefits of the village that raises them) and reduce the length and amount of his maintenance.
Dr. Hooper’s attorney is not without tools to hollow out Hooper’s marital property distribution and maintenance claims. Those claims are in part contingent upon Hooper demonstrating how much of a homemaker he really was. If dinner was routinely takeout, Merry Maids came for two hours every Tuesday, the kids attended extensive preschool and afterschool programs, the gardeners came for three hours every other week (all financed by Dr. Hooper’s salary) while Hooper devoted substantial energy to training for the Leadville Trail etc. each year, his claims to marital assets thin quickly. He has barely worked for most of his adult life, his attorney will warn him a judge/mediator will likely shave substantially his presumptive marital property distribution and maintenance claims. Hooper will not vigorously contest Dr. Hooper’s attorney’s plan.
But there will be other consolations for Hooper. He will vicariously experience how his soon to be teenage daughter will be reacting to dad being gone because mom discovered her inner sluttishness. Teen age girls look for reasons to hate their parents and love drama. This is a trifecta for her: Mom, the infidel, has modeled yielding to your libido rather than adhering social conventions, Michael the Biker is Satan’s serpent and together they have rendered Dad a homeless waif.
Further dad/Hooper is still going to have a substantial home equity payout, a well funded retirement, a modest maintenance stipend and the pleasure of watching his ex enjoy life with Boulder's elite with a crushing house payment, perpetually petulant children, no prospect of retiring before she turns 70 and a significant other who has a history of demonstrating little respect for the sanctity of marriage living in a neighborhood of recently divorced women.
+1, "inner sluttishness" lol
Is this how the divorce is happening or did you make it all up?
Further dad/Hooper is still going to have a substantial home equity payout, a well funded retirement, a modest maintenance stipend and the pleasure of watching his ex enjoy life with Boulder's elite with a crushing house payment, perpetually petulant children, no prospect of retiring before she turns 70 and a significant other who has a history of demonstrating little respect for the sanctity of marriage living in a neighborhood of recently divorced women.[/quote]
Nice. Do you have a publisher? ;)
[quote]Hooper wrote:
This is long...so prepare yourself.
My wife and I have been in the midst of an on and off trust/understanding issue for the past 6-7 months and feel it may be time to talk with someone. We'll have been married for 16 years and have two children (ages 7 and 12). We've always had a good marriage and outside of the normal arguments/disagreements (typically brought on by stress, kids, and fatigue) we generally have a loving, caring relationship. We've lived out west for the past 15 years while the rest of our family resides in the midwest. My wife is a physician, while I have stayed at home (working as a substitute teacher part-time) to raise our two kids. Like most families we're busy. My wife and I are both active and share similar interests in fitness and health, while our girls always have something going on (school activities, soccer, gymnastics, swimming, running, sleepovers, and on and on). We rarely get time alone....especially away form the house. So it can be a bit draining and really doesn't allow us time to really connect. Over the past years, we generally only get few nights out a year without children...and the majority of those nights are gatherings with co-workers, neighbors, or friends where often we end up talking to others more than to each other. We always have good intentions to plan a night out...but it seems to rarely come to fruition. We both agree that not having time to relax and enjoy one another seems to lead to frustrations and immature disagreements. But even with all the fatigue, limited quality time together...we've maintained a good relationship. Even our sexual relationship has been good.
DECEMBER 2016
As I mentioned, my wife is a physician. . . This past December she came home with flowers from a patient (a guy), which is not completely out of the norm as she's brought home food, desserts, and even flowers from a variety of patients over the years. I did ask (as I typically do) who the flowers were from. In all honesty, I didn't think much more about it. The next evening I saw she'd just added a new friend to her Facebook account. This friend was the patient who had just given her flowers just the day before. I figured it was nothing, but there was a small part of me that did start to get curious (and probably for no good reason at this point). By coincidence, that same evening my wife asked if I would be okay if she went to a bar next night with two women friends from the neighborhood (both of whom had just separated/divorced . . .
FEBRUARY 2017
Fast forward to February. My wife receives a text message at about 11 at night. . . From this patient. . .
I would find a thread of messages from Thursday...with a number of fun/flirty comments, emojis, silly images (nothing inappropriate) and comments about a texting curfew ("I'll get in trouble" as my wife put it). It was a challenging weekend...some moments I felt we were making ground and couple fix this problem, the next it was back to I'm just "over-reacting" and that this was just a "fun" friendship...nothing more. We literally sat through an entire church service together on Saturday evening crying. [NOTE: On Friday when I found those new messages I took it upon myself to delete this person from her Facebook account. Again probably the wrong thing to do, but I was mad. Of course when she found out (on Sunday) she was extremely upset with me and immediately added him back. She commented that she'd just have to change all her passwords and start locking her phone. This only left me skeptical that she would continue this relationship.] On Monday she agreed to tell him that the messaging was making me upset and that it'd have to stop. It took a few days...but honestly within a week or so we'd basically moved on. I still had my suspicions from time to time...but felt like the situation was over. She kept his phone number, they stayed Facebook friends, and I crossed my fingers that it'd all be okay.
APRIL 2017
Unfortunately I was wrong, in April I found new evidence of further communication (again with friendly chat, emojis, random pics, etc.) via Facebook Messenger. Immediately I was frustrated, but this time I bit my tongue and forced myself to not over-react...and simply let it slide. I didn't want to create the same issue we'd dealt with in February. Maybe I was over-reacting? Maybe this was all my fault? I wanted to trust my wife, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. I said nothing. She had also added SnapChat around this time period...something I was definitely not excited about, but I didn't tell her to delete it. Again...I'd have to trust her. Of course, it wasn't too long afterwards that I found they were friends on this social media outlet too! Since SnapChat messages are immediately deleted once read, I have no idea if they were communicating via this outlet.
JUNE 2017 . . .
Even with all this new info, when I approach my wife about the situation she just tells me that "I'm over-reacting" and "if I hadn't been snooping through her messages everything would've been fine". She tells me she's just a really nice guy and that he's just "fun" and "easy to talk to". She tells me she's sorry and never meant to hurt me, but I get the feeling she's still not being straight forward in the situation. I just get the feeling she's torn between doing what she wants to do and what she knows is right. The hardest thing of all, is that I feel like she's making all these excuses in order to keep this guy around...even if that hurts me. The interesting thing is that we've still had some really enjoyable moments together (bike rides, time at the pool with our girls, conversation) over the past week...even in the midst of this mess. So I know we can get past this, but we still may need some help. For now, my mind keeps racing...and I'm having a hard time trusting her right now.
Her reactions to this situation is to tell me I don't let her do anything and that I'm just a jealous husband. I've admitted to her that I've made poor choices in my comments at times...by questioning this guy or that guy. I know it's wrong and not healthy for our relationship. I know that's not fair to my wife, it's just me being insecure. It's not frequent (not even once a year). She says that I don't let her have male friends, which is untrue. She works with men everyday in her medical practices (doctors, assistants, reps, patients, etc) and many of them have become her friends. She's even has male friends that she exercises with from time to time. I don't question those relationships, because I've seen nothing to make me question them.
Dude, is there ANYTHING that Langley doesn't get right about your wife's cheating?
Graham Allison wrote:
Hooper, beware the Thucydides’s Trap.
What is that? What does it have to do with your situation? Well in its purest articulation it is dense and unilluminating. But reduced to a simpler form it loses little of its insight and enables prudent decisions
First Thucydides was an historian of Ancient Greece. His most famous and influential work was the Peloponnesian War chronicling a 30 year conflict between Athens (and its empire) and Sparta and its allies.
Sparta and friends were the dominant power in the Greek peninsula. Athens was the new kid on the block. Athens proved its worthiness (and revealed itself as a threat to Sparta) by ejecting the remnants of Persian influence in Greece. Sparta, although still in ascendancy, felt threatened by emerging presence of Athens. It launched a three stage war spanning nearly 3 decades against Athens.
Ultimately in a climactic battle, Sparta sank Athens'navy, ending Athens threat to Spartan hegemony. It achieved its TACTICAL objective. However the cost to Sparta and is allies (the "Peloponnesian League") was devastating. The savagery of the war and exposure of this savagery to Greek society unraveled kinship and community across the Greek peninsulla. All of Greece became vulnerable to outsiders culminating in the Macedonian conquest. Prior to that Sparta's ALLY Thebes defeated and humbled Sparta. In the end Sparta won the battle (defeating Athens) at the cost of losing its strategic objective (maintaining hegemony in Greece)
The Thucydides’s Trap does not counsel meekness. If Sparta and Athens were to avoid a mutually destructive war, it would required huge painful adjustments in attitudes and actions on the part not just of the challenger but also the challenged. Neither was capable of that so Greece was lost.
Don't approach your Athens in such a way as to destroy your marriage in the process. Be prepared to accommodate but manage the rising power of Athens. Whatever you do remember your objective is to come out of this with the best possible relationship with your wife and daughters. Don't win the battle and lose the war.
I have to say this is the most convoluted metaphor I’ve ever heard to give love advice. Bravo sir!
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!