Tempo Runs useless...

partimer wrote:

Why was this article even discussed? This same guy believe 3 days/week is the optimal running frequency for marathon training.

Isn't that the same thing advocated by FIRST? I've not tried it but it seems like a reasonable and sustainable approach -- if done properly -- for people who are not aiming for elite times.

Wow, what a bozo.(I mean that felimr guy)

yep the author is just another HIT "personal trainer"

I run alternate days similar to what is described on that fellrnr site and I have 82-85% age-graded times at all distances at/over 5K - I do not do running recovery, at all, ever. Cycling if anything. 60mpw @ MP or better

More miles via recovery runs might get me another percent or two at best but would risk injury too. Not worth it.

PS keep in mind if you are taking someone and they only have 3 weeks to get ready for a competition and your goal is to do as well as possible in that one competition and don't care about anything long term, then yes HIT (hard interval training 2-3 times per week) is in fact the best way to prepare. In any "controlled study" say over 3-5 weeks HIT trained athletes will in fact outperform all others in that short time frame.

However if you want to be much, much better I year from now, HIT would be a total disaster. To get better over the next year you need to do the following, in order of importance:

1) consistent and gradually increasing daily mileage in aerobic zone

2) long runs and gradually increasing distance in aerobic zone

3) tempo runs 1-2 times a week both continuous and interval tempo running

4) work on speed endurance i.e. full recovery 200s

5) work on basic speed via 9 second hills, 40-60 sprints, squats with weights

6) top off with 4-6 weeks of anaerobic interval training or what the author would call HIT training and a couple of under distance races

Very good post, especially the last two sentences.

Upper body weight room training IS a waste of time if you gain body weight. Many distance runners including myself were prone to become body builders if they spend any time in the weight room. I could make BIG gains in my bench press by only lifting ONE day per week. I quit being a wrestler because of this.

There may be types who can spend all day in the weight room and not gain an ounce. Just remember that weight is the enemy of a distance runner, especially if it is in the upper body!

As far as your friend's claim to gain speed through only squatting, please talk to my friend "Doubtful Pre, Doubtful." There is too much there you are not telling us!!!

Fartlek can train all three energy systems to their max if done correctly but it is true that it's best for veteran runners or someone guided by a coach.

That is what I do, three days per week, but quality only, plus some limited cycling. I simply have to do it this way due to my age, my family and my job. These three running days are always intense, fast, never short and therefore consequent recovery days are very welcome. No jogging around. Guess what? I am on par with my personal bests (age graded, everything else is pointless). Nothing wrong with this concept in my point of view.

Of course my tempo runs are long, fast (as written above) and I try to extend the length.

Good post, go to the head of the class! Now can we talk about race strategy because most do not get it when it comes to that...see my title.

I've thought about buying a lactate pro. My only problem is that it seems like it might be unworkable with 50 kids on a cross country team. I could say, "OK kids, only the good kids are getting tested in this workout". But then, I'm playing favorites. I've also looked at a 24 pack of HR monitors. That's pretty expensive, but at least I could get some actual data on these kids.

Mostly though, getting kids to go farther at the same pace with less fatigue is the ultimate goal of the tempo runs in the base period. If I can get kids to accomplish that goal, without blowing themselves out of the water, then everything else they do in the fall can be done at a much higher level

CoachB wrote:

I've thought about buying a lactate pro. My only problem is that it seems like it might be unworkable with 50 kids on a cross country team. I could say, "OK kids, only the good kids are getting tested in this workout".

Haha, that IS a problem... The testing strips aren´t free either.

CoachB wrote:

I've thought about buying a lactate pro. My only problem is that it seems like it might be unworkable with 50 kids on a cross country team. I could say, "OK kids, only the good kids are getting tested in this workout". But then, I'm playing favorites. I've also looked at a 24 pack of HR monitors. That's pretty expensive, but at least I could get some actual data on these kids.

Mostly though, getting kids to go farther at the same pace with less fatigue is the ultimate goal of the tempo runs in the base period. If I can get kids to accomplish that goal, without blowing themselves out of the water, then everything else they do in the fall can be done at a much higher level

I have extensive knowledge of using a lactate meter, in Scandinavia they are very popular tools. The easiest thing you can do is listen to how hard they are breathing, thats usually a good fit with treshold training.

i mean im more of a guy who doesn't test his abilities every week and just tweaks mileage and intensity and i go into a race with only interval splits and try to hit them.

You wrote: "Fartlek can train all three energy systems to their max if done correctly but its true that it`s best for veteran runners or someone guided by a coach"

Of course it`s easy to have a workout that trains all three energy systems to their max (or maybe more like close to their max) in one workout, but then it stops to be an original Fartlek and will be more like a controlled interval session.

You know...to really do an original Fartlek you just stop thinking about times and beats per min and so on.....you just let it go and "play" with the speed and recovery jogs...you and your body will be one with the nature. Thats Fartlek! :)

COACH J.S