brahmamama wrote:
One of my children had a band concert last week. We went as a family.
Please explain to me how this prioritizes your children over your spouse. It sounds like you had a nice (ok, excruciating) family outing. I don't see the relevance.
That's why I've been saying we are at an impasse. I certainly don't see how your example prioritizes your wife over your children. We just aren't speaking the same language, and that's fine. My wife certainly wasn't going to youth concerts 8 years ago.
Have a good night
stats stats stats wrote:
MovieMadnessGuy wrote:I've always thought the women's movement was the reason for the rise in the divorce rate.
For Americans over 18 years old:
78% of Americans have been married at least once.
33% of Americans who have been married have experienced divorce.
25% of all Americans (18yo+) regardless if ever married have experienced divorce.
The statistics worded in these ways removes the over-inflated stats caused by people being married and divorced multiple times.
69% of American divorces are initiated by the wife.
31% of American divorces are initiated by the husband.
But if the wife is college-educated, then 90% of the American divorces are initiated by aforementioned wife.
College-educated women are not as likely to be trapped financially in a marriage, so they divorce their husbands because they can. And then live their own independent lives. That reveals much about their priorities towards their husbands. Many women don't really want a husband. They want a procreating partner who can provide them biological children and be nice to them.
Interesting stats. I had heard women initiate most divorces but am shocked it's that high.
Do you have marriage stats for people over 30? I'm curious what percent over 30 or 40 have been married.
Spouse comes first, then kids but I've got neither.
wejo wrote:
stats stats stats wrote:For Americans over 18 years old:
78% of Americans have been married at least once.
33% of Americans who have been married have experienced divorce.
25% of all Americans (18yo+) regardless if ever married have experienced divorce.
The statistics worded in these ways removes the over-inflated stats caused by people being married and divorced multiple times.
69% of American divorces are initiated by the wife.
31% of American divorces are initiated by the husband.
But if the wife is college-educated, then 90% of the American divorces are initiated by aforementioned wife.
College-educated women are not as likely to be trapped financially in a marriage, so they divorce their husbands because they can. And then live their own independent lives. That reveals much about their priorities towards their husbands. Many women don't really want a husband. They want a procreating partner who can provide them biological children and be nice to them.
Interesting stats. I had heard women initiate most divorces but am shocked it's that high.
Do you have marriage stats for people over 30? I'm curious what percent over 30 or 40 have been married.
Spouse comes first, then kids but I've got neither.
Why you want to know? I would think someone like you would have no problem finding someone. First off, I'm certainly no expert in this field but my job allows me to be observant and I have collected a lot of data on my own. I've found about 70/30 when it comes to marrying again and the other percentage living together/no kids/or first time married. I've seen people marrying for the first time in their 40s and early 50s. Kind of like what George Clooney did. So it's possible to find a mate in your later years...;) hope this helps.
Depends who you ask. In my religion a husband's first loyalty is to his wife. A wife's first loyalty is to her husband. Healthy parents will see that and take pleasure. Unhealthy parents will try to tighten their hold.
wejo wrote:
Interesting stats. I had heard women initiate most divorces but am shocked it's that high.
Do you have marriage stats for people over 30? I'm curious what percent over 30 or 40 have been married.
Spouse comes first, then kids but I've got neither.
The stats regarding women divorcing men more often came from this study:
http://data.stanford.edu/hcmstI don't have access to it at the moment. I had read some of the results in a secondary source. I don't know if they separated the stats out for age groups.
The stats about percentages of Americans being married or divorced came from this survey:
https://www.barna.com/research/new-marriage-and-divorce-statistics-released/On the second study. I'm not religious at all but I do think believing or having a faith of sone sort helps one to stay true to oneself or if you don't have faith but a good heart/caring to be committed in a relationship, it's possible to last as long as trust and love is in place in a relationship. Not always easy to maintain but if two people are willing they will. I also think each couple needs to come to a relationship with feeling good about themselves first before committing and not looking for the other to fulfill that part of you. Unfortunately, sometimes you won't learn if you keep making the same mistakes....with experience and time will tell.
Relationships are tough but humans need companionship. I'm willing to be patient and find that person.
thejeff wrote:
brahmamama wrote:Your examples aren't about prioritizing. They are about parenting as a unified team, as any good parents would/should do.
We may have to just disagree on this one, then.
Please, give me examples of prioritizing your kids over your spouse. This is the third time I have asked.
Say you're out in a canoe and it overturns. Your kid and wife are both struggling to stay afloat, who do you rescue first?
Tom Thompson wrote:
thejeff wrote:We may have to just disagree on this one, then.
Please, give me examples of prioritizing your kids over your spouse. This is the third time I have asked.
Say you're out in a canoe and it overturns. Your kid and wife are both struggling to stay afloat, who do you rescue first?
1. This has been discussed (sans canoe).
2. How oftwn has this happened to you?
3. Do you have any "everyday" examples of how you have already put prioritizing your children over your spouse into practice? I provided several specifics of how I am loyal to my wife over my children.
brahmamama wrote:
That's why I've been saying we are at an impasse. I certainly don't see how your example prioritizes your wife over your children. We just aren't speaking the same language, and that's fine. My wife certainly wasn't going to youth concerts 8 years ago.
Have a good night
Let's try using the language of the OP. In what way does your example show your loyalty to the kids superceding your loyalty to your wife?
thejeff's primary motivation to be loyal to his wife is because it serves his kids.
My parents seem like they are losing their minds. Definitely going to choose building a future over keeping the past alive.
kids >> spouse wrote:
Let's decouple this spouse vs kids debate by saying that the spouse isn't the parent of the kids. Anyone who is more loyal to this non-parent spouse than to the kids is nothing but a selfish prick.
This is an interesting post, and I initially hesitated to comment on it. Still not sure I have my thoughts together, but here goes:
1. I cannot speak to this from experience.
2. There are a number of reasons why a step-mom might be in the picture. If there was a divorce, then the conversation is moot. De facto, the initial marriage did not involve two people who were sacrificially loyal to each other, so the question of whether this new marriage would involve two people who are sacrificially loyal to each other over the children seems pointless. In this case, I agree with your point: someone who would neglect the mother of these children but then prioritize a new woman seems warped. (I am assuming the father is at fault in this marriage... not sure how I would feel if the mother was solely at fault in the divorce, but barring mental instability, I am not sure that is possible.)
3. IF, however, the mother died, I think it would be possible to have a normally functioning household with the spouses' loyalty to each other superseding that to the children. This would take very deliberate effort on the part of the new husband and wife, and it would take a very intentional relationship and mutual respect (and genuine love) between step-mother and step-children for this to work.
Let me flip this around. If you were to claim that the blood relationship should trump a marriage to a step parent, how would you feel about adoption? Would you consider anyone who prioritizes adopted children over a spouse to be a selfish prick?
All who put spouse as #1 are asking for trouble. If you put your wife on a pedestal, she will look down on you. I would bet everything I own that more than half of those who put spouse as #1 are, or have been cheated on by their spouse.
Rupp-a-lupp wrote:
I'm not married but thought about this question when hanging out with my brother and his wife.
She was talking about her dad in such high regard (as she has the right too) and how my brother needs to ask him for help with task around the house.
That's when the question came to me. Does her loyalty reside more with her parents or her husband?
- She has spent all of her life with her parents, and until a few years ago her husband was a stranger.
- With the high divorce rate, is marriage more of a mutual agreement?
- Will that loyalty ever change?
Just food for thought.
Does a man's loyalty reside more with his parents or his wife?
Just food for thought.
thejeff wrote:
Tom Thompson wrote:Say you're out in a canoe and it overturns. Your kid and wife are both struggling to stay afloat, who do you rescue first?
1. This has been discussed (sans canoe).
2. How oftwn has this happened to you?
3. Do you have any "everyday" examples of how you have already put prioritizing your children over your spouse into practice? I provided several specifics of how I am loyal to my wife over my children.
1. Discuss it with the canoe.
2. Once
3. I buy stuff for my kid. I don't for my wife.
asking for trouble wrote:
All who put spouse as #1 are asking for trouble. If you put your wife on a pedestal, she will look down on you. I would bet everything I own that more than half of those who put spouse as #1 are, or have been cheated on by their spouse.
THIS!! Finally someone with a clue.
I would take a bullet for any of my kids. But my wife comes first in all important things. If she were not a good mother that would be different.
I was of the generation that would think men should die in place of almost any female, even a stranger, but not anymore. There is still that tendency to see men as disposable compared to females,but I am cured of it.
I would risk my life helping protect a female, but I would not say I am disposable compared to most of them, maybe including my wife. I am as good as she is for our children. In reality we both bring different levels of strength(and weakness) on different aspects of life.
I think there is a big responsibility to most parents, but they are second to spouse in terms of loyalty as long as she is decent. If she doesn't deserve to be above your parents , time to move on, or be her caretaker maybe if it's because she is ill. If your parents kicked you around and are foolish,well that is a different topic, I think there is some responsibility, not sure how much, but no loyalty in terms of what they think of or want for you.
this.this wrote:
asking for trouble wrote:All who put spouse as #1 are asking for trouble. If you put your wife on a pedestal, she will look down on you. I would bet everything I own that more than half of those who put spouse as #1 are, or have been cheated on by their spouse.
THIS!! Finally someone with a clue.
Where are you meeting these women?!
Baconator wrote:
Your kids come first, then spouse. Parents are a distant, distant third.
A parents job is to launch their kid forward - there is no reciprocal obligation.
Divorce is guaranteed with this 'kids first' crap. It will also show the kids that they come first over everyone else for the rest of their lives.
When you put you spouse as a priority over the kids, the kids see that and learn from it. They learn that an equal partnership is more supportive to each other as well as showing the kids that they do not run the show. The entire family benefits long term.
If your spouse is not going to be your priority, don't get married and certainly don't have kids. The world does not need an more entitled spoiled kids, who grow up to be narcissistic adults that expect everyone to focus on them.
If people put their spouse as a priority the divorce rate would probably decrease from the 50% rate.