National 12 Stage

What do you think for the women's teams? AW lists Coventry Godiva, Bristol & West, Birchfield, Shaftesbury Barnet, Liverpool, Chester-le-Street, Charnwood, Belgrave and Tipton.

I think WSEH, maybe Bedford could also feature..

no chance for Bedford on the womens side. They usually decide its more important to do the southern lge or soemthing these days than the National champs.

Depends on who they turn up but some of those clubs will have lost athletes after London. Bristol have Kate Reed, Gray Lee and Wilshire. If Reed finishes they will be in the medals but Chester have the potential to beat them.

Results now up.

As last year Bedford miss out on a first ever 12 stg medal (gutted). As I see it we were deprived of a medal, not by Leeds, but by Birchfields Kenyans. I suppose we were lucky they only ran 3. Leeds deserved silver & we deserved bronze. Is it time the number of foreign athletes was restricted in AAA team competition (as it is in the BAL). Any views?

stop moaning and get your team members to run faster other than wilfred there other foreigners whre nothing special

Absolutely!!!

sorry Scouse, have to agree on this one - guys in the 26's on the long leg isn't unassailable.

Onto next year....

I agree Matt, bronze was there for the taking I ran crap as did matty as he admitted. I don't like belgrave for recruiting athletes left right and centre but they seem to have a good team spirit and a core of athletes who always turn up. Birchfield annoys me purely because I know that if they didn't have the africans they didn't have a team. They aint got any senior men training down at alex stad, and got relegated from birmingham lge! And then medal at 12 stage?

Well, for a start it is illegal to impose retrictions on any EU athletes - well aware that B'fields kenyans don't fit that bill.

I think it may be safer to introduce a catchment rule - athletes who are born in or live in a clubs catchment area can compete regardless of nationality. I think this is better than a anti-foreigner rule even though it could be ruled unlawful in a european court.

Not sure that would work either. I understand why some people feel a bit aggrevied, but ultimately this is a (very) amateur sport and I don't think there should be too many restrictions on people's competitive opportunities. We need to find ways of getting more people involved in running and once they are running we need to keep them involved.

Anyway I thought it was a bit lacking in atmosphere on Saturday. It just seemed a bit flat.

Bazza wrote:

...I don't think there should be too many restrictions on people's competitive opportunities. We need to find ways of getting more people involved in running and once they are running we need to keep them involved.

This is true BUT the question then is do hired hands (or legs) keep people in the sport? Bedford should feel aggreived at losing out on a medal, will their 10,11 and 12th best runners bother to run next year?

I know of one club that considered running some kenyans in the national cross and some of the original team threatened to boycott.

I'm sure even B'field would concede they would rather win a medal with local lads. I would certainly hate to see a situation where the top 10 clubs were all wasting money on second string kenyans and the other (poorer) clubs dont bother to turn up to get hammered.

Its not racist at all. There are a small number of localised kenyans in the country, people that are in UK for other reasons. I would never suggest that these guys dont be allowed run.

Birchfield didn't break any rules and I don't have any problem with the kenyans running. It is just a bit worrying that certain clubs are doing this to achieve success.

I know the leeds guys have a great team spirit and we at bedford have a good team spirit also. It just annoys me that we as a club focus on getting everybody out for the big events national x, south x, and road relays. And some clubs just throw a few runners together at the last minute and get a medal when they haven't fielded teams at all this year i.e birmingham lge. I train with some birchfield lads even they laugh about their situation

I am bitter though! Always next year!

are they 'hired' in the sense that they are paid to run? I can't see a situation where there's ten clubs with that sort of funding - maybe for travel expenses, but unless there's prize money (is there? not sure) for the 12 stage there won't be too many people wilign to pay people much beyond expenses to run it. If the kenyans are only doing it for cash I doubt they'll be too many more coming in as the money just isnt there.

Most of the guys do it as its a good hard race and a chance to measure yourself against good guys (of today and the past).

The whole thing about 'local' clubs is a bit parochial - theres probably only about 5 clubs in the South that have geniune competition for places in the 12 stage teams - most of the rest are happy to get 12 out on the day. Would it not be better to have a few less teams but higher standards at the sharp end? This leads into the whole debate about the numbers of people in the sport (in the sense of hard-racing road / track / XC guys) which we know is declining.

Its a tricky issue and I don't think its as simple as saying 'ban foreigners' or 'you must run for your local club'. I know a few guys who's teams don't compete in the big events that I'd love to join us to strengthn our chances - it would mean more good runners in the race, even though I'd probably be out of our teams because of them - but then thats where the competition for places benefits the overall standard.

I'm not suggesting it's racist - I know many people feel angry that Belgrave's catchment area seems to cover the whole of the British Isles. However, I'm really not sure that many clubs actually 'develop' their runners. Most people become a runner by default, find their nearest club and that's about it.

I dont think the kenyan's should be banned but it is really against the spirit of the event.

Belgrave have moped up athletes from all over the country but it has been done before, and it will probably be done again.

One problem is that we do not have the same number of athletes training hard in clubs that we used to have. The times of the winning and placing teams is on the decline, and this is supposed to be the foundation of our sport.

Good to see Davies and Farah running at the weekend, otherwise it would have been a totally forgetable day.

Missed Buds commentating - he was there, anybody know why he wasnt on the bus ?

Times were moderate on both short and long legs - was the wind that bad ?

The wind was blustery and seemed to be in your face from the long leg/short leg split (or presumably from the long leg turning point) all the way to the bottom of the final climb. The muddy section after the pool was off-putting but didn't really affect the pace.

Conditions were fine, i'd love to have an excuse for my poor long leg! A little breezy as you rejoin the small loop but prior to that sheltered by the trees. When you say muddy bit by the pool do you mean the 3 metre stretch!!!!

The bit from the pool down to the bridge was a bit slippery, but as you suggest, nothing to worry about. I've got nothing to complain about anyway as I had a really good run.