You don't know what he knew, which means you know nothing. You are not positive of Brad Hudson telling him anything.Your whole post is pure speculation based on nothing but your peabrain.
Money brings out the worst wrote:
Ritz knew,all about Salazar's dirty reputation before he joined NOP. Im positive that Brad Hudson told him. He went anyway. I'm sure that money played a huge part. Just proves that Ritz has situational ethics. He had a price.
Wrong
Some of them are victumsyou have no idea how powerful Salazar is!!!
Some
Are definately guilty
I think Ritz and all of the athletes were in a VERY tough spot. He tried to make sure everything he was doing was legal. Imagine you are the father of several young kids and have a job that pays you a quarter of a million per year. You are aware that the company you working for may be doing some unethical things. However, you don't have 100% proof. If you go public, you'll be out and lucky to make $50k somewhere else. And you are well aware that you'll never make $250k per year again in the same field as their is limitless supply of younger workers behind you.
I think many people would do what he did - keep your mouth shut - and just go out of your way to make sure what you are doing is legal (even if it ends up being not legal). Find an opportunity at home and get out and refuse to represent the old company (Ritz didn't wear the NOP singlet when he ran in Boston right when he left).
Remember, when Magness and the Gouchers went public. People ripped them - and many are still doing so - because they didn't have 100% proof. So unless you have a smoking gun that will give you whistlebower type protection, its' really hard to do much.
UFO sighting wrote:
Add Webb to your shit list ..although not probably on the dope (I'd say he did dope when run 3:46.91) while with AlSal ..he saw plenty while with NOP and refused to give any type of statement.
I always thought it was off the way Webb left the group. He seemed to be progressing nicely, getting back to solid form and beat Rupp in that road 5k. Then it seemed like he just randomly dropped them. I like to think he left him because he was asked to do some unethical stuff and didn't want to partake.
the truff be real wrote:
Well, I figured NOP guys were skirting or slightly going over the legal barrier, but still, I don't think this really helps track/running much since it's more like hey, we just penalized these guys for taking l-carnitine, and at the same time there's an army of East Africans on EPO, norandosterone, furosemide, etc, and no doping programs to hear of. It's a complete farce!
I've largely agreed with your sentiment. A ban of Salazar without any athlete bans means what? Very little.
Still I think this report - if the scientific arguments that it was impossible for them to get the transfusions without getting more than 50 ml - indicates Salazar needs to be banned.
That being said, I think the East African comment is not with reality. Sumgong and Jeptoo - two of the greatest female runners - have both been banned. This investigation and even the Jama Aden raid show it's really hard to ban someone.
I don't care one bit if he was forced to take supplements. Is it cheating if you're allowed to break the rules seemingly because no one cares?
I think doping is the biggest waste of time in the modern era of athletics. Who cares seriously if a guy is taking 51mL of some supplement. I certainly don't and none of my friends do.
I want to see guys run fast times, I want to see Sammy Sosa v. Mark Maguire mash 70 home runs. I want to outside line backers get around the corner and sack a QB for a 20 yard loss.
I've read most of the report and wouldn't call them cheats. I think they were walking as close to the line as possible. I think that most of the evidence they present is almost impossible to prove and nothing will come from it.
I don't think anyone is claiming Ritz is a hero, but where is his gray area? Calling him a cheat may be accurate as long as you also call Tara Welling, who if I understand correctly also had her suspicions, never spoke up, and took an IV for something she can't account for, a cheat as well. Why does everyone go after only Rupp, Ritz and the like? Hasay and Welling are sweet and innocent?
My point is, USADA has nothing but is willing to drag these guys through the mud and tarnish their reputation. No one is claiming the girls are cowards for not coming forward but Ritz and is being judged harshly for the same thing.
Let's not forget Kara really didn't speak up until after she got her $$$$ and good years from Nike. How convenient that she had courage after that fact. No different from Ritz. She also claimed to have suspicions long before leaving.
Also, I want to agree with the poster that said the NFL and NBA do worse than this on a daily basis. That is a fact. Their medical crews would laugh at the idea that we are trying to prosecute for taking too much of a legal substance. But please, let's keep spending money to harass our best American Distance runners.
rojo wrote:
I think Ritz and all of the athletes were in a VERY tough spot. He tried to make sure everything he was doing was legal. Imagine you are the father of several young kids and have a job that pays you a quarter of a million per year. You are aware that the company you working for may be doing some unethical things. However, you don't have 100% proof. If you go public, you'll be out and lucky to make $50k somewhere else. And you are well aware that you'll never make $250k per year again in the same field as their is limitless supply of younger workers behind you.
I think many people would do what he did - keep your mouth shut - and just go out of your way to make sure what you are doing is legal (even if it ends up being not legal). Find an opportunity at home and get out and refuse to represent the old company (Ritz didn't wear the NOP singlet when he ran in Boston right when he left).
Remember, when Magness and the Gouchers went public. People ripped them - and many are still doing so - because they didn't have 100% proof. So unless you have a smoking gun that will give you whistlebower type protection, its' really hard to do much.
Yes, but Ritz is a grown man and knew what he was doing. Don't give him a pass because you want to like the guy. THEY ALL KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING!
The only thing that reeks about the whole thing is Ritz didn't come out with anything publicly until he was not paid what he felt he was owed by Nike. I think NOP does try to toe the line and may inadvertently cross it as they are recklessly trying to stay within the legal means of enhancing performance. It is definitely ridiculous that all of their athletes have been diagnosed with Thyroid issues (must be Fukashima radiation entering the water in Eugene). The main issue with the IVs with USADA is they don't want you to dilute a sample (like Lance would do during the tour). I don't feel that NOP was trying to dilute Ritz's sample. I think they just wanted to give him a bunch of l-carnitine, which is not banned and got caught trying to cover up their miss-step with how much of an infusion was allowed. Nike should name their next shoe the AIR-a-thyroid or the Spanish version the El Carnitine.
Are you serious,it's his livelihood, why would he? In addition, they may have told him that what he's taking is legal...we weren't there.
joedirt wrote:
The only thing that reeks about the whole thing is Ritz didn't come out with anything publicly until he was not paid what he felt he was owed by Nike. I think NOP does try to toe the line and may inadvertently cross it as they are recklessly trying to stay within the legal means of enhancing performance. It is definitely ridiculous that all of their athletes have been diagnosed with Thyroid issues (must be Fukashima radiation entering the water in Eugene). The main issue with the IVs with USADA is they don't want you to dilute a sample (like Lance would do during the tour). I don't feel that NOP was trying to dilute Ritz's sample. I think they just wanted to give him a bunch of l-carnitine, which is not banned and got caught trying to cover up their miss-step with how much of an infusion was allowed. Nike should name their next shoe the AIR-a-thyroid or the Spanish version the El Carnitine.
rojo wrote:
I think Ritz and all of the athletes were in a VERY tough spot. He tried to make sure everything he was doing was legal. Imagine you are the father of several young kids and have a job that pays you a quarter of a million per year. You are aware that the company you working for may be doing some unethical things. However, you don't have 100% proof. If you go public, you'll be out and lucky to make $50k somewhere else. And you are well aware that you'll never make $250k per year again in the same field as their is limitless supply of younger workers behind you.
I think many people would do what he did - keep your mouth shut - and just go out of your way to make sure what you are doing is legal (even if it ends up being not legal). Find an opportunity at home and get out and refuse to represent the old company (Ritz didn't wear the NOP singlet when he ran in Boston right when he left).
Remember, when Magness and the Gouchers went public. People ripped them - and many are still doing so - because they didn't have 100% proof. So unless you have a smoking gun that will give you whistlebower type protection, its' really hard to do much.
If Ritz receives ANY kind of ban or sanction over receiving the lCarantine, AFTER COACH AND DR LIED TO HIM, he should sue the living hell out of them and anyone else that knew about it (NIKE).
green flash wrote:
STRIP ALL MEDALS,, RECORDS AND CHAMPIONSHIP FROM RUPP!!CHEATER
This is really the only way, and a lifetime ban, that athletes will stop. I'm not necessarily saying to it to Rupp but just any athlete that has irrefutable evidence against them
That's what I'm saying. If they told him that what they were giving him was legal---which I'm sure they did----- and he's getting paid big bucks, what's a guy to do? I don't find any fault in Dathan, none at all. Full disclosure, I'm from Grand Rapids, but there's no bias. Dathan simply wouldn't do something illegal, period, not to mention immoral. He's a stand up guy who trains hard and wants results from his efforts.
rojo wrote:
I think Ritz and all of the athletes were in a VERY tough spot. He tried to make sure everything he was doing was legal. Imagine you are the father of several young kids and have a job that pays you a quarter of a million per year. You are aware that the company you working for may be doing some unethical things. However, you don't have 100% proof. If you go public, you'll be out and lucky to make $50k somewhere else. And you are well aware that you'll never make $250k per year again in the same field as their is limitless supply of younger workers behind you.
I think many people would do what he did - keep your mouth shut - and just go out of your way to make sure what you are doing is legal (even if it ends up being not legal). Find an opportunity at home and get out and refuse to represent the old company (Ritz didn't wear the NOP singlet when he ran in Boston right when he left).
Remember, when Magness and the Gouchers went public. People ripped them - and many are still doing so - because they didn't have 100% proof. So unless you have a smoking gun that will give you whistlebower type protection, its' really hard to do much.
joedirt wrote:
I think NOP does try to toe the line and may inadvertently cross it...
Are they trying to toe the line or trying to look like they toe that line? It may be that they make a big show of it when they are toeing the line and keep it quiet when the cross it.
ggilder wrote:
...
All that's going on in Oregon is maneuvers with various nutritional supplements, ointments, salves and other nostrums, while Caster Semenya and the like make a farce of our sport. Don't you have any idea how vindictive and obsessive you sound?
whoa, whoa, whoa.
way to have it completely ass backwards there, pal. Whatever else you think of sexually ambiguous women competing in women's athletics, she is completely within the letter of the law of sport now and has always been compliant with it - to the great intrusion of her personal space. She never voluntarily chose to be sexually ambiguous, nor did her chose push questionable medical procedures and supplements down her throat, like Ritz. All while "wrestling with his conscience" about something that should have been crystal clear.
If he wouldn't do anything illegal, then why would he take thyroid medication when he knew his levels were within the normal range. The doc is dirty and should have his license revoked.
Both of these posts are incredibly pathetic. Anyone can face this moral decision and it makes no sense to say it's okay because the outcome was the person received more money. I remember watching something on Watergate and the question was how could no one do the right thing in that situation when you had the top law school grads and some of the smartest people in the country involved and one of them said something along the lines of they all checked their integrity at the front door when they went to work. Good people can make bad decisions and Dathan made a bad choice (and he knew he did as his wife told him he didn't have to.) And yes $200K is nice but not necessarily a life changing amount - gets you out of what 2 more years of work at the end. Just not enough to tarnish everything you've accomplished and now have that following you around the rest of your life. It's kind of like Mary Slaney - I doubt she was doping her entire career but she was possibly at the end of it and now that's mainly what she is remembered for.
knots really about wrote:
That's what I'm saying. If they told him that what they were giving him was legal---which I'm sure they did----- and he's getting paid big bucks, what's a guy to do? I don't find any fault in Dathan, none at all.
Full disclosure, I'm from Grand Rapids, but there's no bias. Dathan simply wouldn't do something illegal, period, not to mention immoral. He's a stand up guy who trains hard and wants results from his efforts.
rojo wrote:I think Ritz and all of the athletes were in a VERY tough spot. He tried to make sure everything he was doing was legal. Imagine you are the father of several young kids and have a job that pays you a quarter of a million per year. You are aware that the company you working for may be doing some unethical things. However, you don't have 100% proof. If you go public, you'll be out and lucky to make $50k somewhere else. And you are well aware that you'll never make $250k per year again in the same field as their is limitless supply of younger workers behind you.
I think many people would do what he did - keep your mouth shut - and just go out of your way to make sure what you are doing is legal (even if it ends up being not legal). Find an opportunity at home and get out and refuse to represent the old company (Ritz didn't wear the NOP singlet when he ran in Boston right when he left).
Remember, when Magness and the Gouchers went public. People ripped them - and many are still doing so - because they didn't have 100% proof. So unless you have a smoking gun that will give you whistlebower type protection, its' really hard to do much.
The same could be said of any professional athlete who dopes. Dope and make good money doing something you love or don't dope and be forced to get a regular job. Why are you giving these athletes an excuse but don't for athletes who got caught (Gatlin, Tyson Gay, Russian and Kenyan athletes).
joedirtAgain, is it illegal? If I take more vitamin D, C, etc...and my opponent doesn't, it doesn't make me guilty if I run faster. If what he took aids with quicker recovery from hard workouts, then so be it. I'd bet almost anything that Dathan would only do what was legally allowed to his knowledge. You can think differently.
joedirt wrote:
If he wouldn't do anything illegal, then why would he take thyroid medication when he knew his levels were within the normal range. The doc is dirty and should have his license revoked.