Who is the best 1500m runner/miler that you are confident isn't/wasn't doping?

Myself. You can’t be sure of literally anyone else.

ohia wrote:

El Guerrouj

Used to be suspicious about him (like all), but when you think about it, Willis, Centro, Ingebrigtsen all ran 3:30 and El G was just training so much harder than all of these. Running was his entire life, he had no social media, no other hobbies, just running and chasing the dream of medals and providing his family with a good life.

That coupled with incredible talent could really mean that he was actually clean, even tho most people on these boards don't believe it.

Before he was known, he ran 13:46 in the World Junior champs when he was 18 on limited training, that already shows how much his talent really was. He was also consistently good. Runners who elevate their performance with doping, are good for the time they do it, say 1 year, but after they get caught or when they stop they don't run anywhere nearly as good.

So what you're saying is that the best runner from the full gas EPO era from the biggest cheating country of the full gas EPO era was probably clean. Even with the sketchy coach and the multiple busted training partners?

He doped his full career and he could do so with very limited risk of being exposed. That was just the era he ran in.

My guess would be between the 1920s and 1940s as the final pure year.

Shortly thereafter -- read next 20 years -- we saw use of ritalin, caffeine stimulants and even early phases of blood doping occuring.

The real answer is when people had a reason to cheat. When did the sport become competitive? Not in 1910 or 1920. Most people were still holding on to puritan ideals and practicing a sport everyday would have been considered unethical so that was the equivalent to doping then.

Whenever there were competitions in the news and money/notoreity on the line is when doping followed.

Jenny Simpson.

Foodforthought___ wrote:

Having this conversation with a friend and wanted other opinions.

we've settled on Nick Willis for a few reasons;

his 3:29 PR

2 olympic medals and other world stage podium finishes

the length of his career

and the fact that he couldn't keep his masterbation habits a secret so there's no way he could keep quiet if he was doping.

Discuss

Bernard Lagat. Willis is a good pick too but he is a lesser version of lagat to me

Zlatan wrote:

Clam

Fixed

GoldenMiles wrote:

Alan Webb's Triceps wrote:

+1

It's amazing how pro white this forum can be. Like being non-white is already a strike against you.

#coloredrunnersmatter

LR is the most conservative forum I've ever been to. I wonder, are distance runners in general conservative?

Excuse me, but It is overwhelmingly the Democrat party that champions race- and sex-based "Affirmative Action" policies that discriminate on the basis of race and sex regarding hiring, contracting and admissions policies. Strangely, women in the USA are outperforming men by some measures (more academic degrees, fewer incarcerated, greater life-expectancy), so why are they given an advantage? I think these policies have hurt black Americans especially as they shift the focus from the true pathologies (poor mores, broken or never-formed families, unemployment, bad primary and secondary schools, government disincentives to conceive in-wedlock, work or pay for food, etc.) and merely try to bandage the symptoms by offering lowered admission, hiring or contract-selection standards.

Black people don't need help in achieving success in most sports, the arts or entertainment and they shouldn't need it for succeeding in other aspects of life.

In the US, one problem with so-called "Liberals" is that they refuse to be race-blind. Hence so-called "Affirmative Action" programs that require decisions regarding hiring, contracting and admissions based on race (and sex).

Further, it is often wealthier white liberals subjecting poorer whites to such decisions. Asians complain that they get the shaft regarding school admissions. Women, who by several measures outperform men in the US, are given an upper hand. Why?

And instead of helping minorities, so-called "Affirmative Action" obscures the true pathologies: kids raised without a father, bad schools, less emphasis on education than say in immigrant-Asian families.

How anyone purports to reconcile this with traditional icons of blind justice or the scales of justice is jaw dropping.

Of course, some are able to buy their way into school (endowing a chair, for example), but that is rather rare. Less rare are legacy admissions which also hinder meritocracy.

Cram and Webb.

Bayi/Walker. I'm a little suspect of the greats after them. For some reason I think Webb is as likely to be clean as any much faster than those guys.

Great talent, hard work & ambition doesn't preclude an athlete from using PEDs, especially from a country like Morocco with a strong culture of doping. Dozens of positive tests over the last 19 yrs plus 10 ABP sanctions (2nd only to Russia's world leading 60+). 4 out of their 7 fastest 1500m guys have been busted for doping!

1. El G 3:26.00

2. Iguider 3:28.79

3. Ramzi 3:29.14 (IC CERA/2008 Olympics)

4. Aouita 3:29.46

5. Laâlou 3:29.53 (IC Furosemide/2012 & OOC EPO/2016)

6. Koauch 3:31.10 (IC EPO/2007)

7. Mikhou 3:31.34 (ABP PS/2018 - pending)

And even one of their 1500 meter female runners is on the act: Mariem Alaoui Selsouli holds the NR of 3:56.15 which makes her currently the 19th fastest female of all-time! She was busted twice just like Laâlou for the same two PEDs! (IC EPO/2009 & IC Furosemide/2012).

A culture of doping unfortunately.

I still believe Kiprop is innocent. Very strange case with all the blood tests and doping tests in ten years and then suddenly doping. Makes no sense .

Just magic wrote:

I still believe Kiprop is innocent. Very strange case with all the blood tests and doping tests in ten years and then suddenly doping. Makes no sense .

if you believe that the antidoping authorities in Kenya are corrupt, then anything is possible: Kiprop could have been doping the whole time with it covered up until recently or it could be like he said and he was taken down for not paying a large enough bribe. His crazy behavior including releasing that video with his training partner's wife lessens Kiprop's credibility, however.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Kiprop could have been doping the whole time with it covered up until recently or it could be like he said and he was taken down for not paying a large enough bribe.

It was probably both.

Maybe John Walker from New Zealand. He had a lot of depth too

800 m – 1:44.92 (1974)

1500 m – 3:32.4 (1975)

Mile – 3:49.4 (1975)

5000 m – 13:19.28

GoldenMiles wrote:

Alan Webb's Triceps wrote:

+1

It's amazing how pro white this forum can be. Like being non-white is already a strike against you.

#coloredrunnersmatter

LR is the most conservative forum I've ever been to. I wonder, are distance runners in general conservative?

Whether or not they are conservative politically, they are likely conservative ideologically. Being an athlete, especially a runner, begets a meritocracy, a work-based hierarchy, where one's worth is defined by their achievements which is largely defined by work.

And while genetics and doping do harm the meritocracy, there is no way to make up for the former and the latter seems to evade every swing we throw.

Asbel Asbel wrote:

Kiprop. He's just that talented. He was already one of the top junior runners. Just like why I don't think Bolt is a doper. Anyone who's already the best from a young age has no reason to dope. It's just a natural growth curve for them.

Ha! Ha!Ha! That did not age well

Exactly and the numerous western runners who went to Morocco to train say that he is 100% a doper.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Bayi/Walker. I'm a little suspect of the greats after them. For some reason I think Webb is as likely to be clean as any much faster than those guys.

Webb was the most juiced up guy in American sport. As soon as SARMs, Cardarine, CERA etc were detectable he was a shadow of his former self.