Why so concerned with retirement?

I don't agree with OP's original ideology of "not saving for retirement" but he's certainly in a better position than a "White Trash" who appears to hate life. Some of the hostile responses on here indicate that OP has hit a nerve. If you were truly happy in what you were dong (like I think I am!) you would have the mentality of: "awesome for OP, he's found what works for him"

Father wrote:

God. Some of you appear to have sad, depressing lives and have settled on the fact that it is just how it is.

Take control of life.

tex rillerson wrote:

Actually in almost every case the 1.5M person pays a lot more - I guess you are totally unfamiliar with other tax brackets, capital gains tax etc. as you've never broken 150k.

I agree with OP on this - your logic is flawed. Do you think a paramedic or nurse is contributing less and less valuable than a wall street broker or tabbaco lobbyist?

How do you know the OP isn't helping a ton of people as a non-profit consultant etc.?

how do you look at yourself? wrote:

Actually, someone who makes 150k/yr pays exactly the same amount into social security as someone who makes 1.5 million/year.

But whatever you have to tell yourself to prevent your brain from having to confront the fact that your goal is to skate through life while leeching off people who use their talents productively!

Actually, you just revealed that you've never made more than 118k. :)

I don't know who's the bigger idiot - "how do you look at yourself" or OP.

If you think a person making millions pays the exact same tax than someone making 118k (or 150k or whatever) then you understand nothing about taxes - do some research then come back thanks.

OP spot on about value contributed does not equate at all to taxes paid but he is dumb when it comes to saving for retirement.

business trek wrote:

Wrong. Totally happy to engage and answer. Just on a new thread. It's you who refuses to start one.

Roger Murdock wrote:

Yep, and when asked to defend or at least explain those vague hypotheticals, he refuses to answer the question.

You won't answer questions raise questions raised by your own statements in a thread you made them in? I still think you're deflecting.

Okay - I'll start a new thread in which I ask you to defend the statement you made in this thread. That seems silly to me, but I'll play. I'm putting your posting name in the title. Look for it. Remember, I'm playing by the rules you insist upon.

dr money wrote:

I don't know who's the bigger idiot - "how do you look at yourself" or OP.

If you think a person making millions pays the exact same tax than someone making 118k (or 150k or whatever) then you understand nothing about taxes - do some research then come back thanks.

OP spot on about value contributed does not equate at all to taxes paid but he is dumb when it comes to saving for retirement.

I specifically stated that I was talking about social security tax. When you graduate college and get a job, you will learn that the FICA tax is a separate tax and is not paid on income over about 120k.

haha sure! You seem really obsessed - maybe I'm getting through to you!

Roger Murdock wrote:

business trek wrote:

Wrong. Totally happy to engage and answer. Just on a new thread. It's you who refuses to start one.

You won't answer questions raise questions raised by your own statements in a thread you made them in? I still think you're deflecting.

Okay - I'll start a new thread in which I ask you to defend the statement you made in this thread. That seems silly to me, but I'll play. I'm putting your posting name in the title. Look for it. Remember, I'm playing by the rules you insist upon.

Business trek wrote:

listed a couple bad habits (no watching tv and excessive drinking aren't "passions" they are bad habits)

I didn't say anything about excessive drinking, you did. Hate to break it to you, but you're a snob.

We're in a golden age of television right now. And if live performance on a stage is considered art, then recorded performance that I watch at home is art too. There's no material difference between them.

And beer is a legitimate interest, just like wine or any other food/beverage passion that people have. Over the last 10 years beer varieties have exploded in number. Brewers are creative, and it's very exciting and a lot of fun to get into beer. Learning the styles, learning the vocabulary, figuring out what you like and what you don't.

I suppose I could have written a paragraph about each of my interests so you would understand why I consider them interests, but why would I need to do that? I said I like watching Netflix and drinking beer. That should be enough. I'm not sure why you jumped from there to bad habits.

So, by your definition, the only way to contribute to society is through social security tax the government imposes?Perhaps OP is contributing in some other very meaningful way?

How do you look at yourself? wrote:

dr money wrote:

I don't know who's the bigger idiot - "how do you look at yourself" or OP.

If you think a person making millions pays the exact same tax than someone making 118k (or 150k or whatever) then you understand nothing about taxes - do some research then come back thanks.

OP spot on about value contributed does not equate at all to taxes paid but he is dumb when it comes to saving for retirement.

I specifically stated that I was talking about social security tax. When you graduate college and get a job, you will learn that the FICA tax is a separate tax and is not paid on income over about 120k.

Haha dude you kidding?If you want to put up a serious argument come up with better then "beer and tv are my passions"You can't honestly believe this??

John Utah wrote:

I'm always amused at the millennial holy grail quest to make a living doing a hobby and avoiding unpleasant/unexciting labor of all kinds.

If you guys figure it out I'm all in!

I'm not a millennial; I'm either a boomer or gen-x, depending on which marketing guru you accept. And I have more or less figured it out, or it worked out for me.

That's awesome! May I ask what you do? What your lifestyle is like?

lifestyle consultant wrote:

John Utah wrote:

I'm always amused at the millennial holy grail quest to make a living doing a hobby and avoiding unpleasant/unexciting labor of all kinds.

If you guys figure it out I'm all in!

I'm not a millennial; I'm either a boomer or gen-x, depending on which marketing guru you accept. And I have more or less figured it out, or it worked out for me.

Programmer. It helps that we're DINK. I like to write software, work when I want to, and run.

business trek wrote:

That's awesome! May I ask what you do? What your lifestyle is like?

lifestyle consultant wrote:

I'm not a millennial; I'm either a boomer or gen-x, depending on which marketing guru you accept. And I have more or less figured it out, or it worked out for me.

That does help!

Are you a compsci major or did you get into it later in life?

Business trek wrote:

If it's depressing you can change it! You can reframe the norm for yourself and can certainly pursue your passion.

I don't believe for 98% of people it's unattainable but I definitely believe 98% of people think it's unattainable so never try or are too risk averse to try.

John Utah wrote:

Of course it's hard. That's the whole point. It's the holy grail. It really isn't attainable for 98% of the world's population. That's why work is called work. I admit, it's a brutal and depressing reality. But it is what it is. That said, it's not depressing if you have the right attitude and "understanding" of life. At least, that's how I see it.

Talk is worthless. Do it for an extended period and come back to me.

It is extremely difficult and highly unlikely to make a living doing your hobby. If that were not the case then everyone would be doing that. Here on earth, houses need to be built, roads need to be paved, taxes need to be done, grocery shelves need to be stocked, code needs to be written, financial analysis needs to be done, etc. Work is work. That's why you get paid for it. As a % of the entire population, very few people get paid to do the things that everyone else pays to do.

Work is not a bad thing. Work is good. Some people might call their passion their work, but would they do their job as an accountant or lawyer if they didn't get paid, but still had bills to pay? highly unlikely.

Lastly, supporting a family makes it even more rare.

Business Trek

You are most certainly a young person. We were all young once. Everyone who ever lived was young once. Do you think you and your generation are the first to have the thought that it might be more pleasant to not have to work for a living?

No shit! Of course anyone would prefer to work 20 hours a week with large allocations of time allotted to exercise, reading, new and interesting pursuits that expand, challenge and uplift the body, mind and soul.

As you get older you come to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

That said, one does not have to work as a slave, as so many do, just to earn lots of money to buy things that they don't need and don't even have the time to use because they are working nonstop.

There is plenty of opportunity in this country for a happy medium. A decent job coupled with modest spending habits can lead to a satisfying life as a single person and/or in support of a family, which is the true joy of life in my opinion.

lifestyle consultant wrote:

Programmer. It helps that we're DINK. I like to write software, work when I want to, and run.

business trek wrote:

That's awesome! May I ask what you do? What your lifestyle is like?

1. Do you support a family?

2. How many hours a week do you work if you averaged total hours worked in a year?

3. Would you do exactly what you are doing for free?

I'm not saying that it's impossible to like your job. I like mine well enough most of the time. It's the "follow your passion" thing that gets me. I think we are setting people up to fail with that attitude.

Again, STFU and get a job you little clown. Nobody cares about your passion.

As someone mentioned before, aviation is a fantastic example. I know two pilots pretty well. Both work for major airlines. Neither would say that they are filled with passion as they drive to work. It becomes a job like anything else. We don't live in a theoretical world. In aviation, like anything else, there are all kinds of frustrating realities that you have to contend with on a daily basis: politics, disfunction, paperwork, delays, schedules, boring routines, unexciting routes, crappy passengers, hotels, time away from family, etc. They don't hate their jobs. They like aviation, but reality does not closely resemble this romantic notion of aviation that inspires this "passion" that people talk about. A lot of making a living is a grind. Not all, but way more than most young people expect, myself included (when I was young).

I've seen millennials at my work come and go. Great guys and gals, but their expectations were totally unrealistic. Everything is not exciting, challenging and fulfilling all the time. You are lucky if it's some of the time. Also, you are not going to be promoted to do senior executive level type of work after two weeks on the job (I'm exaggerating to make a point).

Business Trek, please start another thread to tell people what you want them to start threads about. This thread is for people to explain to you why grown ups don't like earning $22,000/year when they can earn more and save for retirement.