quickndirty wrote:
Do your knees get dirty suckin so much MD dong?
LOL
quickndirty wrote:
Do your knees get dirty suckin so much MD dong?
LOL
Doclove wrote:
What do you pay taxes for in America!
So Congress can have lavish lifestyles and sweet healthcare plans that the rest of us can't have! ðŸ˜
GOP deep thinker wrote:
Hope this is not dumb question wrote:What if these people don't have money to pay for their services? Is this cost factored into the Republican plan? Are there any estimates on this cost?
The solution is simple. Two words: FREE MARKET. Here's the plan....
1) US Healthcare is a mess.
2) Solution: free market!
3) ?????
4) Profit
Why does everybody think healthcare is so complicated? EVERYTHING in life is black and white, very simple, and can be fully explained in 140 characters or less.
#MAGA #unpresidented #whoknewhealthcarewassocomplex
#grabembythepu$$y
LOL! ^This dude sounds like he's a member of the Freedom Caucus. I swear I heard several of their members and representatives from libertarian leaning think tanks on TV basically saying this type of crap.
great answer to the moran wrote:
quickndirty wrote:Do your knees get dirty suckin so much MD dong?
LOL
That's pretty cute - one brainless idiot finding comfort in the arms of another.
You go, girl!
Way Better Educated Guy wrote:
great answer to the moran wrote:LOL
That's pretty cute - one brainless idiot finding comfort in the arms of another.
You go, girl!
LOL
sovereign citizen wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/9MnOdK5.jpg
^This.
Regardless of whether the House passes some sort of Healthcare legislation today I think we have gotten a glimpse into the (lack of a) GOP thought process. The GOP members of the current House are--for the most part--the same people who have been screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs about the problems of the ACA for years. They voted dozens of times to repeal the ACA when Obama was in office.
Typically, normal people who argue passionately against something have facts, logic, and an alternate plan. They have thought about why--in detail--they oppose something and what they would do instead. Yet, we are seeing that these members of the House who have spent 100s if not 1000s of hours and who knows how many taxpayer dollars arguing, voting, and debating against something for which they haven't even come up with a viable alternative solution. This represents 20% of the US economy and peoples lives are literally at stake. Yet the GOP has approached this in an sophomoric, immature way. They clearly have no idea what they are doing and never have. Screaming FREE MARKET, FREE MARKET over and over again is not a plan.
The only example of free market healthcare "systems" in the world aren't really planned systems (one of the keys to free market is of course no plan) are in third world countries that have no Government or Governemnt Institutions to speak of. Is that really what we want in the US? The GOP members of the House are mental midgets. Pathetic.
Educated guy wrote:
maybe I am misunderstanding... wrote:^This. I agree.
I was going to bring up the DRG angle but was waiting for "educated guy" to show us his knowledge since he claims to have study this issue in depth.
Most people who are not in medicine probably don't realize that inpatient care is not "fee for service". Generally for hospital patients you want to avoid doing extra things (interventions, tests, etc.) because your only going to get so much for a given admission based on the diagnosis.
I can agree with the last sentence, that living a healthy lifestyle throughout life is key, but people are lazy and don't care. But a major reason they don't care is because they don't feel the costs of being unhealthy with their "pocketbook".
I can appreciate the detail of OLD SMTC SOB's post. But those details are all systemic processes that lay on top of a generally fee-for-service system, that has zero pricing transparency, that employs a third party payment system. If you are able to root these problems out at the base, many of these other bandaids (like "Accountable Care Organizations") go away. Literally, Poof! Gone. Adios. We don't need you. Remember how HMOs were going to really help control health care costs? It's bandaid on top of bandaid on top of bandaid. It's a joke. There are just far too many skimmers in the health care industry. And it ends up costing ALL OF US more money.
He used a Medicare Inpatient example. That's a small piece of the overall pie. Outpatient revenue - "largely fee-for-service" (OLD SMTC SOB) - as a proportion (vs inpatient/physician services) for hospitals/clinics has doubled over the last 25-30 years. I believe it was down around 25% back in 1990 and now it's at 50% or higher. And it will continue to rise, as a) it's the most profitable, and b) technology will continue to push in that direction.
Inpatient vs outpatient has indeed shifted as more insurers have pushed people out of the inpatient setting (hospital as well as SNF) to home care and outpatient clinics, much earlier then before. However fee for service, while procedure based, is also a negotiated rate between the insurance company and the provider of service. A high proportion of procedures that were once done in hospitals, are now done in outpatient clinics. However the fees/procedure that the insurers pay are being ratcheted down when each contract comes up for renewal. Thus the providers make less money, and hospitals everywhere are in bad shape. And a lot of procedures are now bundled.............IE if you do a certain procedure..........a debridement for example, the evaluation and management can't also be billed, as its a bundled service...........unless there is a separately identifiable reason to bill one. Medicare typically leads the way, with huge regulation changes each year that are almost impossible to keep up with. I find out something new every day that I wasn't aware of before. Wanna tear your hair out? Go to the CMS website and try and find out the answer to a question you might have. And the ACA has just exacerbated things with the myriad of arcane rules and regulations that are of dubious benefit to anyone. remember the catch phrase "in order to see what's in the bill, you have to pass the bill". I would estimate that probably 30% of the cost of healthcare right now is spent in management of the regulatory aspect of it with providers trying to not run afoul of the law and end up wearing an orange jumpsuit. The entire system requires simplification however that's easier said than done. And again, someone still has to pay the bill at the end of the day.
"our healthcare system has gotten very good at keeping chronically ill patients alive using expensive medications and technology"
I think this sums up the great cost of healthcare.
It's much cheaper to let sick people die quickly rather than treat them, but we're obviously going to treat them.
The average cost is equal to the total cost divided by the number of people with coverage.
Then you can alter each person's cost by factors like age or income.
And of course you lower cost per person by increasing the number of people with coverage.
Hope this is not dumb question wrote:
What if these people don't have money to pay for their services? Is this cost factored into the Republican plan? Are there any estimates on this cost?
Who cares who pay as long as I am not paying for other peoples healthcare and bad choices. Government needs to get completely out of healthcare. They just better not touch my medicare because I earned it!
#MAGA
moanswers wrote:
HandWringingLiberal wrote:No insurance, cant afford care; tough luck. Don't see why taxpayers have to pay for someone else's boob job or sex change or diabetes 2 care.
It's easy to say that until someone swipes you with their car while you are riding your bike or wind up with cancer.
Despite what some people would like to believe, accidents and diseases happen to healthy people.
Nope. Wrong. When people get sick its a sign that God views them unfavorably. FACT. It's all about personal responsibility.
baggyballs wrote:
Health is each individuals responsibily.
I do not want to pay for other peoples healthcare. I do not want my tax dollars spent on other peoples healthcare.
I have not had health insurance for 15 years, because it is a scam, and you pay out of pocket anyway. Doctors and hospitals charge way too much for their services. If I don't own a car, I don't pay car insurance (yes Obama fined us for not having his plan!) People need to take responibility for themselves, and not have other people carrry them! The more you give people, the more they take.
FREEDOM!!!!
Medical System Madness wrote:
Big Pharma doesn't want people to take responsibility...they want customers! Many people are on multiple medical drugs and brag about it like it's somekind of badge of honor 😕. Look at the ad nuseam drug commercials polluting the networks...massive advertising dollars at work here. And many doctors are merely foot soldiers for the pharmaceutical industry!
This is absolutely 100% correct! ALL doctors are crooks and are in the pocket of big pharma. The solution to our healthcare woes is to put MBA and JD types in charge of medicine because if anyone knowns how to help sick people it's not MDs.
Correct!!!!!! wrote:
Medical System Madness wrote:Big Pharma doesn't want people to take responsibility...they want customers! Many people are on multiple medical drugs and brag about it like it's somekind of badge of honor 😕. Look at the ad nuseam drug commercials polluting the networks...massive advertising dollars at work here. And many doctors are merely foot soldiers for the pharmaceutical industry!
This is absolutely 100% correct! ALL doctors are crooks and are in the pocket of big pharma. The solution to our healthcare woes is to put MBA and JD types in charge of medicine because if anyone knowns how to help sick people it's not MDs.
For sure!
I'd also include dixie cup makers and those guys who spit on your wind shields and wipe it with a filthy rag - can't remember the name of those folks. Anyway, mix 'em in with the MBA and JD types and we'd have our solution in no time!
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:
Educated guy wrote:I can agree with the last sentence, that living a healthy lifestyle throughout life is key, but people are lazy and don't care. But a major reason they don't care is because they don't feel the costs of being unhealthy with their "pocketbook".
I can appreciate the detail of OLD SMTC SOB's post. But those details are all systemic processes that lay on top of a generally fee-for-service system, that has zero pricing transparency, that employs a third party payment system. If you are able to root these problems out at the base, many of these other bandaids (like "Accountable Care Organizations") go away. Literally, Poof! Gone. Adios. We don't need you. Remember how HMOs were going to really help control health care costs? It's bandaid on top of bandaid on top of bandaid. It's a joke. There are just far too many skimmers in the health care industry. And it ends up costing ALL OF US more money.
He used a Medicare Inpatient example. That's a small piece of the overall pie. Outpatient revenue - "largely fee-for-service" (OLD SMTC SOB) - as a proportion (vs inpatient/physician services) for hospitals/clinics has doubled over the last 25-30 years. I believe it was down around 25% back in 1990 and now it's at 50% or higher. And it will continue to rise, as a) it's the most profitable, and b) technology will continue to push in that direction.
Inpatient vs outpatient has indeed shifted as more insurers have pushed people out of the inpatient setting (hospital as well as SNF) to home care and outpatient clinics, much earlier then before. However fee for service, while procedure based, is also a negotiated rate between the insurance company and the provider of service. A high proportion of procedures that were once done in hospitals, are now done in outpatient clinics. However the fees/procedure that the insurers pay are being ratcheted down when each contract comes up for renewal. Thus the providers make less money, and hospitals everywhere are in bad shape. And a lot of procedures are now bundled.............IE if you do a certain procedure..........a debridement for example, the evaluation and management can't also be billed, as its a bundled service...........unless there is a separately identifiable reason to bill one. Medicare typically leads the way, with huge regulation changes each year that are almost impossible to keep up with. I find out something new every day that I wasn't aware of before. Wanna tear your hair out? Go to the CMS website and try and find out the answer to a question you might have. And the ACA has just exacerbated things with the myriad of arcane rules and regulations that are of dubious benefit to anyone. remember the catch phrase "in order to see what's in the bill, you have to pass the bill". I would estimate that probably 30% of the cost of healthcare right now is spent in management of the regulatory aspect of it with providers trying to not run afoul of the law and end up wearing an orange jumpsuit. The entire system requires simplification however that's easier said than done. And again, someone still has to pay the bill at the end of the day.
Once again, your detailed examples are much appreciated. Great examples of the inherent inefficiencies of our health care system.
So based on your post and noteworthy examples (which are results of exactly the root causes that I've been preaching about), I'm guessing "maybe I am misunderstanding..." guy now realizes our current system is in fact "pull your hair out" worthy, and it's not all about politics.
We have a plan, no really.... wrote:
sovereign citizen wrote:http://i.imgur.com/9MnOdK5.jpg^This.
Regardless of whether the House passes some sort of Healthcare legislation today I think we have gotten a glimpse into the (lack of a) GOP thought process. The GOP members of the current House are--for the most part--the same people who have been screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs about the problems of the ACA for years. They voted dozens of times to repeal the ACA when Obama was in office.
Typically, normal people who argue passionately against something have facts, logic, and an alternate plan. They have thought about why--in detail--they oppose something and what they would do instead. Yet, we are seeing that these members of the House who have spent 100s if not 1000s of hours and who knows how many taxpayer dollars arguing, voting, and debating against something for which they haven't even come up with a viable alternative solution. This represents 20% of the US economy and peoples lives are literally at stake. Yet the GOP has approached this in an sophomoric, immature way. They clearly have no idea what they are doing and never have. Screaming FREE MARKET, FREE MARKET over and over again is not a plan.
The only example of free market healthcare "systems" in the world aren't really planned systems (one of the keys to free market is of course no plan) are in third world countries that have no Government or Governemnt Institutions to speak of. Is that really what we want in the US? The GOP members of the House are mental midgets. Pathetic.
It looks like it's not going to pass even the House but we'll see if they can figure this out. That being said, your analysis of the situation appears pretty accurate.
Educated guy wrote:
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:Inpatient vs outpatient has indeed shifted as more insurers have pushed people out of the inpatient setting (hospital as well as SNF) to home care and outpatient clinics, much earlier then before. However fee for service, while procedure based, is also a negotiated rate between the insurance company and the provider of service. A high proportion of procedures that were once done in hospitals, are now done in outpatient clinics. However the fees/procedure that the insurers pay are being ratcheted down when each contract comes up for renewal. Thus the providers make less money, and hospitals everywhere are in bad shape. And a lot of procedures are now bundled.............IE if you do a certain procedure..........a debridement for example, the evaluation and management can't also be billed, as its a bundled service...........unless there is a separately identifiable reason to bill one. Medicare typically leads the way, with huge regulation changes each year that are almost impossible to keep up with. I find out something new every day that I wasn't aware of before. Wanna tear your hair out? Go to the CMS website and try and find out the answer to a question you might have. And the ACA has just exacerbated things with the myriad of arcane rules and regulations that are of dubious benefit to anyone. remember the catch phrase "in order to see what's in the bill, you have to pass the bill". I would estimate that probably 30% of the cost of healthcare right now is spent in management of the regulatory aspect of it with providers trying to not run afoul of the law and end up wearing an orange jumpsuit. The entire system requires simplification however that's easier said than done. And again, someone still has to pay the bill at the end of the day.
Once again, your detailed examples are much appreciated. Great examples of the inherent inefficiencies of our health care system.
So based on your post and noteworthy examples (which are results of exactly the root causes that I've been preaching about), I'm guessing "maybe I am misunderstanding..." guy now realizes our current system is in fact "pull your hair out" worthy, and it's not all about politics.
Sorry I don't have time to read this whole thread. What are your suggested reforms for the US healthcare system?
What's with this "Death Spiral" crap? I have heard at least 25 RepubliKKKans use this same term when referring to Obamacare. Did they all get a secret email instructing them to repeat this talking point?
DT can't even get legislation passed through his own party. Sad. pathetic. low energy.
Correct!!!!!! wrote:
[quote]Medical System Madness wrote:
Big Pharma doesn't want people to take responsibility...they want customers! Many people are on multiple medical drugs and brag about it like it's somekind of badge of honor 😕. Look at the ad nuseam drug commercials polluting the networks...massive advertising dollars at work here. And many doctors are merely foot soldiers for the pharmaceutical industry!
Correct!!!!!! wrote:
This is absolutely 100% correct! ALL doctors are crooks and are in the pocket of big pharma. The solution to our healthcare woes is to put MBA and JD types in charge of medicine because if anyone knowns how to help sick people it's not MDs.
I don't think the "MBA and JD types" could do any worse given the the level of problems in the medical cartel. And instead of being such a clown, you need to read the rest of info that was originally posted on this:
FDA-approved" correctly prescribed medications now account for 100,000+ DEATHS and 2.5 million SERIOUS adverse events annually in the U.S. 😠. And 1.7 million of the annual 2.5 million people who suffer from the serious drug side-effects require hospitalization! Consider the cost of treating these people that suffer damage from correctly prescribed medical drugs! Medical-drug destruction to say the least:
http://www.pharmamyths.net/And to add to the problem, doctors view modern medicine as unassailable science—they cherish all the official science, no matter how deep the publication bias goes. Industry-funded safety studies polluting the journals they worship and many could care less - they have become merely foot soldiers for the pharma industry!
And MEDICAL ERRORS are now the *3rd* leading cause of death in the U.S. Think of the path of the destruction that's left on the victim's families & loved ones.
https://hub.jhu.edu/2016/05/03/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death/I wonder how all the Trampanzees fel now that we will have "ObamaCare for the foreseeable future."
