MJErb, per milesplit.com, ran a 3200 best of 9:31 in HS. By his sophomore year in college (per tfrrs.org), he was All-American in XC (37th in 2014) and ran 3:46 and 14:18 and 8:50 (SC). So I agree, that was really good development. He has continued to progress.
Snotty Toddy wrote:
Finally, look a little bit closer at Engels and Erb if you want to see development. These guys have sky rocketed at Ole Miss and may be inking some contracts in a few months.
It's understandable that Erb washed out of cuse and that Engels left Nc state, often times it's hard to find the right fit/ adjust to college running, especially starting at an elite program. My biggest question is why did Manahan leave Georgetown where he was lighting it up his first two years. Real testament to Vanhoy to land such a talent.
Also find it interesting looking at the guys from big program whether they be manlius, York, great oak, south lake Carroll and woodland and see progression. I'd say it's about 40-60 succeed in college vs plateau very very hard. Sansone hasn't really met expectations at UNC while Gilley has completely taken off at Ole Miss. Not a big proponent of the 80-90 mi a week in hs but I guess some people care more about winning then truly developing a runner for the long term and doing what's right for each kid.
manahan left Georgetown late summer of 2015 when all the stuff went down with Henner, etc. don't know everything with 100% certainty, but also Georgetown's academics may have been too much, hence the move to Ole Miss?
The big question is Engel's 'stache meant to be ironic or is it just a goofy redneck thing?
They signed a great class this yr male and female.
Deena wrote:
Also find it interesting looking at the guys from big program whether they be manlius, York, great oak, south lake Carroll and woodland and see progression. I'd say it's about 40-60 succeed in college vs plateau very very hard. Sansone hasn't really met expectations at UNC while Gilley has completely taken off at Ole Miss. Not a big proponent of the 80-90 mi a week in hs but I guess some people care more about winning then truly developing a runner for the long term and doing what's right for each kid.
Do you think the success rate for athletes from those programs is different than athletes from those counties, states, etc?
Sounds like an investigation may be warranted.
I have raced many of these guys throughout my collegiate career, and envy what they have done. Sure, it seems speculative to point fingers and make assumptions about the landing of Engels, Erb, and Manahan, but Vanhoy has all those connections. The timeline looks something like this:
- Barnabas Kirui runs fast and proves you can train in MS.
- Entire T&F program sucks except for Kendricks and a few sprinters
- Fall of 2013 Vanhoy, Gilley, and Domanic all arrive in Oxford.
- December 2013 Tobin arrives
- Fall 2014 Wes Gallagher arrives (spent 1 yr under Vanhoy @ Northeastern)
- Spring 2015 - MJ Erb and Craig Engles show up (Engles and Vanhoy had background from NC running, Erb idk maybe he knew Gallagher)
- Fall 2015 - team finds success, Ryan Manahan joins the crew along after Georgetown/Henner incident with Ryan Walling coming from UNC (were Vanhoy was an assistant. Walling only had I/O TF, and was enrolled in graduate school).
So yes, Gilley and Domanic were the catalysts for this Ole Miss dominance. They slowly but surely started finding the right pieces who came in at the right time. My only concern is that the high schoolers that Vanhoy has signed directly since that initial class haven't done much. Maybe it's because they don't get much of the limelight, idk.
But with that being said, this group of guys all seem to believe in Vanhoy a lot and truly have a brotherhood with each other (reminds me of the Colorado and Wisconsin teams).
I have heard Ryan speak a couple times and one of the biggest things he talked about was changing the culture of success. Once you have a group of talented runners buying into the program and succeeding, it become a whole lot easier to win.
Is he doing anything different than other coaches? Probably some things, but everyone does intervals, reps, tempos and long runs. Coaches are all just arranging the same workouts and the order may change a little. If you train hard and race harder it makes it easier to win.
It was once said that "Craig Engels is too good looking to not be gay." Hence the need for him to ugly himself up to find a lady
One name: Ian Carter. The original Ole Miss Rebel.
It is remarkable that so much talent went to that school. Maybe an investigation is merited.
They will never do anything notable in cross country.
Gavin Kennedy recruited Tobin, Domanic and Gilley. Then left for Wisconsin. Van Hoy did recruit Waleed Suliman. He is their next star.
.ironical. wrote:
They will never do anything notable in cross country.
4/10
Ole Miss has some of the hottest girls in the country. Girls come from all over to enjoy the Greek life and football. Top 5 hottest girls in the country every year. Being from AL, I can safely say these boys have a lot to enjoy at Ole Miss. I'd rather run for Vanhoy at Ole Miss than Wetmore at CU. Girls are amazing over in Oxford.
This is laughable. Going to college to meet girls is absurd. People should go to college to get a quality education. Ole Miss is hardly a prestigious academic institution.
History minor and major wrote:
It started with the recruiting of the two best kids in TX that year, GIlley and Domanic.
It's interesting looking at that years class of 2013 TX kids and where they are and what they've done.
You had:
Robert Domanic- 4:07/8:57-state champ in 32/16/XC- Ole Miss- 4:00/7:54/13:54
Trevor Gilley- 4:07/8:56- 2nd in 1600m- Ole Miss- 4:00/14:03
Joe Sansone- 9:03- 3rd in 3200m- North Carolina- 8:18/14:24
RJ Ammons- 9:03- 3rd in 3200m- Harvard- quit
Austin Wells- 4:16/9:07- 4th in 3200m- Texas A&M- 4:05/14:05
Brian Barraza- 4:13/9:05- 5th in 3200m- Houston- 3:58/7:53/13:52
Brigham Hedges- 4:10- 4th in the 1600m- Oklahoma State- 4:06 mile
Cameron Villareal- 4:09- 3rd in 1600m- Texas A&M- 4:00/8:03
I'm not sure what it all means, but it's neat to see a phenomenal class of HS athletes and look at where they are a few years later.
Only one "flop" and he's at Harvard so who cares. A few small improvements, and one of the slowest of the group is now the fastest in each event. The good thing is almost all of these guys reached some sort of relevance.
Maybe Texas will finally produce someone in a distance longer than the mile that's worth a damn.
Ramen Noodles. Ramen Noodles.
papajs wrote:
It was once said that "Craig Engels is too good looking to not be gay." Hence the need for him to ugly himself up to find a lady
Ramen Noodles and this ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the secret.