How did Donavan Brazier go from running 1:43.55 and winning NCAAs to bombing out of the US Trials 21 days later?

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  • LetsRun.com
    your benevolent dictator
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 8:14am CST
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    On Jun 10, 2016, Donavan Brazier broke Jim Ryun's legendary, 50-year-old NCAA and US junior record by running 1:43.55 to win the NCAA title for Texas A&M.

    21-days later, running as a professional, Brazier couldn't even make it out of the first round of the US Olympic Trials. What the heck happened?

    We tell you in this 4,000+ word piece by Jonathan Gault:

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/12/growing-pains-donavan-brazier-went-breaking-50-year-old-ncaa-record-bombing-olympic-trials-21-days-later/
  • Case of no Base
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 8:23am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    I can tell you in 3998 less words. No base.
  • Truth Tellor
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 8:27am CST
    re: Case of no Base
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    Bad race

    quite simple really
  • American Pharoah
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 8:31am CST
    re: Truth Tellor
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    He flamed out after indoors and then had to rest and re-build.

    Brazier is like a modern racehorse. minimal training to tune up his talent and well spaced out efforts.
  • just read it
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 9:17am CST
    re: Case of no Base
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    Case of no Base wrote:

    I can tell you in 3998 less words. No base.

    No base? That wouldn't explain why he'd go out in the first round.

    Did you read the article? It sounds like A&M was upset he went pro and didn't send his coach to the meet. He was a lost puppy. Now 6 months later, it appears that cooler heads have prevailed. If Pat Henry is smart, he'll be like Mike Krzyzewski at Duke.

    Coach K initially complained about 'one and dones' and then he realized it was here to say and that he'd better be welcome to the idea as it's better to get them and lose them than to never get them at all.

    Here is a good article on how Coach K has changed.

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14148047/how-duke-coach-mike-krzyzewski-beating-kentucky-john-calipari-own-game
  • they call me flopro
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 9:55am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Drug Testing didn't Brazier go to some $EC Cheat team?
  • dfds
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 10:27am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Was a cool story. Never had any idea that Johnny Gray is such a mileage advocate.
  • Case of no Base
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 10:52am CST
    re: just read it
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    just read it wrote:

    [quote]Case of no Base wrote:

    I can tell you in 3998 less words. No base.

    No base? That wouldn't explain why he'd go out in the first round.

    quote]

    Sure it would. He used it all up doing the 1:43 and 21 days wasn't enough to rebuild.
  • wqqqqqqqq
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 10:56am CST
    re: Truth Tellor
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    Truth Tellor wrote:

    Bad race

    quite simple really

    You are confusing 'what' with 'why'. We live in a world where cause and effect are real. "Sometimes people just have bad races" is essentially giving up -- or worse: pretending we have an answer by shifting the mystery around.

    Why does it rain? Well, that's not mysterious. Sometimes the Rain God decides it should rain.
  • i love numbers
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 10:57am CST
    re: Case of no Base
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    No... Switching coaches and having no game plan did him in.

    He literally ran one of the dumbest prelims of all time. All he had to do was go out in 51, leading or no, to advance. He had no one around to tell him that.
  • Whats cooking?
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 11:21am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    A classic case of to many cooks in the kitchen. Everybody had and has an opinion. Lets hope this kid really does get settled.
    Running at the trials may have been a mistake but at the end of day he gained the valuable experience of being there and now knows what it will take to make the team.
    Yes he will have to increase his milage and endurance to race at an international level. Im not so sure his collegiate coaches understand this.
    Collegiate racing and open international racing and championship racing are all different beasts.
  • no explanation required
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 11:23am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Wait, were we supposed to be surprised that a guy who peaked perfectly at the end of a very long collegiate season wasn't still on top of his game 21 days later?
  • Bing bong brother
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 11:41am CST
    re: they call me flopro
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    Great article, glad he ditched Gray and is back at a&m.
  • polevaultpower
    registered
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 11:55am CST
    re: they call me flopro
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    I don't want to lend credence to stupid rumors, but Brazier's case points out flaws in our current drug testing system.

    The NCAA and it's member institutions are not WADA signatories. Their drug testing does provide some level of deterrent to college athletes, but it doesn't "count" in the big picture because the results are not reported to USADA or WADA, and as far as I can tell athletes rarely receive any kind of sanction close to what they would from USADA.

    Brazier did not join USATF until June 2016. That means that USADA _could not_ test him prior to that point even if they wanted to. USADA does not have jurisdiction over American college athletes who are not USATF members unless they are in the OOC testing pool.

    He skipped out on Juniors and did poorly at the Olympics Trials, USADA recorded 0 tests for him in Q3, so they definitely did not test him at either meet.

    He has finally recorded a test in Q4, which almost certainly means he is in the OOC testing pool and will be tested regularly from here on out.

    But shouldn't that first test have occurred last spring when he first ran insanely fast?

    I'm not trying to imply that I think he is dirty. It's just that our country gets heralded as being pretty good in the anti-doping department, yet we have these concerning gaps in our coverage...

    USADA likes to test middle distance athletes quite a bit, so hopefully he continues to improve and any concerns or rumors anyone had can be laid to rest.

    I want the system to be fixed so that those concerns never pop up in the first place...
  • Ace of no Base
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 11:55am CST
    re: i love numbers
    Forum Index
    i love numbers wrote:

    No... Switching coaches and having no game plan did him in.

    He literally ran one of the dumbest prelims of all time. All he had to do was go out in 51, leading or no, to advance. He had no one around to tell him that.


    If he hadn't drained his minimal base 21 days earlier he would have been able to advance from any position.
  • B. Ummer
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 12:40pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Young rookie in the pros without guidance.

    Peaked for NCAAs.

    Emotional roller coaster turning pro.

    Bad race tactics.
  • DickSymmonds
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 12:46pm CST
    re: no explanation required
    Forum Index
    no explanation required wrote:

    Wait, were we supposed to be surprised that a guy who peaked perfectly at the end of a very long collegiate season wasn't still on top of his game 21 days later?

    He had not peaked.

    Would you say Murphy peaked with his NCAA 1500? If he listened to you, he'd not have that bronze.
  • Sick Dymmonds
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 12:48pm CST
    re: polevaultpower
    Forum Index
    polevaultpower wrote:

    I don't want to lend credence to stupid rumors, but Brazier's case points out flaws in our current drug testing system.

    The NCAA and it's member institutions are not WADA signatories. Their drug testing does provide some level of deterrent to college athletes, but it doesn't "count" in the big picture because the results are not reported to USADA or WADA, and as far as I can tell athletes rarely receive any kind of sanction close to what they would from USADA.

    Brazier did not join USATF until June 2016. That means that USADA _could not_ test him prior to that point even if they wanted to. USADA does not have jurisdiction over American college athletes who are not USATF members unless they are in the OOC testing pool.

    He skipped out on Juniors and did poorly at the Olympics Trials, USADA recorded 0 tests for him in Q3, so they definitely did not test him at either meet.

    He has finally recorded a test in Q4, which almost certainly means he is in the OOC testing pool and will be tested regularly from here on out.

    But shouldn't that first test have occurred last spring when he first ran insanely fast?

    I'm not trying to imply that I think he is dirty. It's just that our country gets heralded as being pretty good in the anti-doping department, yet we have these concerning gaps in our coverage...

    USADA likes to test middle distance athletes quite a bit, so hopefully he continues to improve and any concerns or rumors anyone had can be laid to rest.

    I want the system to be fixed so that those concerns never pop up in the first place...

    Go away. Seek help. USADA/WADA/USATF and whoever else in your conspiracy theory had nothing to do with the horrible tactical errors during those two laps.
  • bobloblawlawblog
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 1:38pm CST
    re: Sick Dymmonds
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    Tactical error by someone who overthought their race.

    Not a drug issue. That is ridiculous to even imply.
  • calculo
    registered
    3 years ago 12/20/2016 1:59pm CST
    re: polevaultpower
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    polevaultpower wrote:But shouldn't that first test have occurred last spring when he first ran insanely fast?

    by whom ??

    certainly not usada

    it's none of their business to test a college kid who is not a pro at the time

    i assume he was tested after his 1'43.55 by ncaa to formalize the record & that's sufficient

    for college kids, do you seriously expect them to fill in whereabouts forms for 24/7 for the next 3 months ???

    can you imagine the testing budget ncaa woud have to have to carry out OOC in myriad number of sports even if they signed upto usada ???

    I'm not trying to imply that I think he is dirty. It's just that our country gets heralded as being pretty good in the anti-doping department, yet we have these concerning gaps in our coverage...

    no

    no gaps

    college sport is completely different to pro sports & usada have no business in college sports

    USADA likes to test middle distance athletes quite a bit, so hopefully he continues to improve and any concerns or rumors anyone had can be laid to rest

    Brazier's 1'43.55 was after rounds including murderous relay split with "very sore legs for the final" & in the final he lacked some drafting & did wide running on bends

    in a 1-off run in that shape, smoothly drafted to bell of ideal splits he wouda been looking at

    ~ 1'42-low

    that wouda been the dilemma : if he'd run his peak shape race in a low-key ncaa meet just prior to trials & run a 1'42-low, that wouda been a US national record & he wouda obviously been tested by ncaa at meet & obviously woud have been a college record & then ncaa wouda had to submit the clocking to usatf for recognition as new US national record

    the only question is : woud they have ratified it...