Hi guys, I'm a high school freshman guy looking to improve this winter and get in good shape for track. This past summer was my first time really running consistently in the offseason, ran about 15-20 mpw. I didn't do as well as I wanted this cross country season, I only broke 20 minutes once...felt like I could have done better.
I'm planning to bump up my mileage to around 25-30 mpw this winter to get in better shape. I've already run a few weeks in that range at a fairly comfortable pace, like around 7:30-8:00 pace. I told my coach this and he said I should run less mileage but at a faster pace. He said like 20-25 mpw but around 7 min pace or faster. That seems way to fast, since my 5k pr was like 6:25 pace.
What do you guys think is better? More mileage at a slower pace, less mileage at a faster pace?
Coach wants me to run no slower than 7 minute pace for every run this winter. My 5K pr is 19:5X
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notsure wrote:
Hi guys, I'm a high school freshman guy looking to improve this winter and get in good shape for track. This past summer was my first time really running consistently in the offseason, ran about 15-20 mpw. I didn't do as well as I wanted this cross country season, I only broke 20 minutes once...felt like I could have done better.
I'm planning to bump up my mileage to around 25-30 mpw this winter to get in better shape. I've already run a few weeks in that range at a fairly comfortable pace, like around 7:30-8:00 pace. I told my coach this and he said I should run less mileage but at a faster pace. He said like 20-25 mpw but around 7 min pace or faster. That seems way to fast, since my 5k pr was like 6:25 pace.
What do you guys think is better? More mileage at a slower pace, less mileage at a faster pace?
Coach is a fool, run like 7:45-8:15 on your easy days. -
This is one of those instances where I recommend not listening to the coach. Easy paced mileage will be the way to go for you. 30mpw is good, make it a goal to hit a few 40 mile weeks during the winter.
Honestly, I'd think you would be fine to go even slower on some days and long run days, (8:30- 10:00). I wouldn't get too hung up on paces, however. Run by feel and stay comfortable, the daily runs should not be leaving you demolished. You will improve based on the fact you are freshman, your goal should be to stay healthy!
Maybe once a week do a faster run, around 7 minute pace and perhaps even under. Strides and uphill sprints twice weekly to build top end speed. -
7 30 is ok.10 minute pace is not.
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You have to run more miles at a slower pace.
You are a beginning runner, you don't have hundred or thousands of miles on your legs. This means you need to build up your aerobic abilities with longer, easy running. Easy is a feeling, not a specific pace, but a general guideline is two minutes slower per mile than your 5k pace. For you this would be 8:25. Because easy running is a feeling and not a pace, some days easy may be 7:45 per mile, other days it may be 8:45.
Work your way up to a point where you are running 30+ minutes, six days a week at an easy pace. That is the most important part; running consistently nearly every single day. One of those 6 days, go a little longer than the rest of the days, say 50 minutes. This is your weekly long run. After that, if you feel good, just slowly continue to push the boundaries; eventually you will be running 45 minutes a day, and you will continue building throughout your high school career.
Your 5k PR will drop substantially once you begin to do this. -
While I agree with everyone's assessment (and I would suggest to my athlete that their easy days be in the 8:15 to 8:45 range more days if they were in roughly 20:00 5k shape), the bigger issue is this: how does this high school freshman disobey his or her coach? This is especially challenging since the coach nixed this idea when specifically approached about it.
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lol at your coach. I was a sub 14:00 5000m runner and did my easy runs at 6:30 pace
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In this particular instance I think the coach is right. A HS freshman should train for where the race times they realistically expect to hit in the near future, not based on past performance. For someone your age, I vote for "less mileage at a faster pace" for almost all of your runs. As others have said, if you want to throw in a long run every once in a while, by all means slow it down to 8 minute pace for that run. No problem.
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I would suggest running a lot more. Run twice a day most days. The pace will take care of itself over time. Don't be fixed on a weekly mileage, just go out and run by feel twice a day.
Your body will tell you if you're running too fast or too slow. It will take awhile to get used to, but over time you'll destroy all your current times.
Running 30 mpw is barely training. -
Agreed. I run about 7:00 pace on most of my runs and am in 16:00-16:10 or so shape. Even when I was running my fastest times 20 years ago, low to mid 14s, my distance runs were usually in the 6:00 to 6:30 range most days.
As to this - care to explain your reasoning here?
Man Overboard wrote:
A HS freshman should train for where the race times they realistically expect to hit in the near future, not based on past performance. -
nhrunnah wrote:
You have to run more miles at a slower pace.
You are a beginning runner, you don't have hundred or thousands of miles on your legs. This means you need to build up your aerobic abilities with longer, easy running. Easy is a feeling, not a specific pace, but a general guideline is two minutes slower per mile than your 5k pace. For you this would be 8:25. Because easy running is a feeling and not a pace, some days easy may be 7:45 per mile, other days it may be 8:45.
Work your way up to a point where you are running 30+ minutes, six days a week at an easy pace. That is the most important part; running consistently nearly every single day. One of those 6 days, go a little longer than the rest of the days, say 50 minutes. This is your weekly long run. After that, if you feel good, just slowly continue to push the boundaries; eventually you will be running 45 minutes a day, and you will continue building throughout your high school career.
Your 5k PR will drop substantially once you begin to do this.
This post makes a lot of sense to me. I think my aerboic shape is definitely my weakness. I ran sub 2:20 in the 800 last year as an 8th grader off of hardly any training, so my speed is much better than my endurance. Most of my runs this summer were like a hardish 2-3 miles so maybe I didn't really build as much endurance as I should have by doing that. -
Coach is a moran. Run 10:00 if you are tired and it helps you get the mileage. 40 mpw is the minimum mileage you should be shooting for. Run 7's maybe once/week.
I rejected my coaches' advice after a failed first season (couldn't break 6:00 for the mile despite gut-busting training every day). Lots of easy runs and jogs with good fartleks and tempos, then intervals and I dropped to sub-5:00 in three months on my own. After that the only time I didn't improve was when I raced my teammates in training. Pay attention to your own body and obey what it says above all. -
kick him in the nuts and run however you want
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You've gotten good advice on how much and how fast to run. As to how to deal with the coach:
Tell him your weekly mileage. (Be honest.)
Tell him you ran by feel. (Honesty again.)
Tell him you assume it was around 7 minutes a mile. (True for varying values of "around 7".) -
Is your coach the math teacher and hes the coach because nobody else wanted to do it?
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what a weird coach
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Man Overboard wrote:
In this particular instance I think the coach is right. A HS freshman should train for where the race times they realistically expect to hit in the near future, not based on past performance. For someone your age, I vote for "less mileage at a faster pace" for almost all of your runs. As others have said, if you want to throw in a long run every once in a while, by all means slow it down to 8 minute pace for that run. No problem.
Young runners get burned out, both physically and mentally, from running too much and/or too hard within effort ranges of their roughly 1500 to 10k race paces. A young runner doing 40-50 mpw at a controlled pace for the vast majority is going to be less likely to get hurt than someone pushing all their runs to the limit (which 7:00 for a 4 mile run would in this case) and doing half that volume.
The tricky part with young athletes is that their fitness is far more of a moving target, as things like growth spurts can sap their energy and coordination, while their novice status can conversely mean their current race fitness meaningfully improves on a weekly basis, where a more experienced athlete would take a full meso-cycle to move the needle half as much.
OP: I wouldn't even take a watch with you on runs for now, unless you're doing timed rather than mileage runs.
As another poster said, aim for 6 days a week, working up from 30 to 45 or so minutes on most of those days, at whatever pace you're comfortable with on that day.
1 Day per week go longer, aim to progress from 50-65 or so minutes.
1 Day per week do a warm-up, then do 5-6 x 50 meters as fast as you can, with as much rest as you want to make every one as fast as the first. Cool down 15+ minutes after.
1 Day per week, when you feel good, start off like you would on all your other runs, but after 15 minutes, start gradually picking up the pace until before the point where it would be a struggle to finish the run. -
My 5k pr is 17:51. In season I ran my easy runs around 7:45 a mile. Off season I've been doing 8:30 a mile. Both between 30-40 mpw. For reference I train at home in the winter and not at my school. My home is at 7000 ft, school 6300 and much flatter
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Yes to running 8-min pace and add in 12x30sec uphill sprints once a week.
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I ran 19:20 for 5K about a month ago. I do my easy runs around 9:30 pace (granted, I'm almost 30 years older than you). But no, I really can't imagine what you're gaining from running your easy runs that fast.
If you're fit enough that 7 minute pace should be easy for you, then you'll find that out in a race. Until you get there, better to be cautious.
