Fair or Foul? Sonia O'Sullivan slams the fact that two Kenyan born Turks go 1-2 at 2016 Euro Cross

LondonBrit wrote:

Am I the only one seeing the actual problem here: that Kenyan runners always have been and always will be natural the best, superior.

If these Kenyan runners representing Turkey were at the back of the field there would be no discussion.

No the problem is that the Turks and Kenyans are most likely doping when you look at the history of both countries. That is why they should not be competing.

stato wrote:

LondonBrit wrote:

Am I the only one seeing the actual problem here: that Kenyan runners always have been and always will be natural the best, superior.

If these Kenyan runners representing Turkey were at the back of the field there would be no discussion.

No the problem is that the Turks and Kenyans are most likely doping when you look at the history of both countries. That is why they should not be competing.

Literally some of these Kenyan-Turks have Soviet coaches.

BullSlacker wrote:

stato wrote:

No the problem is that the Turks and Kenyans are most likely doping when you look at the history of both countries. That is why they should not be competing.

Literally some of these Kenyan-Turks have Soviet coaches.

You need to fit in a mention of AlSal and transgender to max out on the LR paranoias.

LR=paranoia wrote:

BullSlacker wrote:

Literally some of these Kenyan-Turks have Soviet coaches.

You need to fit in a mention of AlSal and transgender to max out on the LR paranoias.

Whilst I appreciate your humour; Kenya has a widespread doping problem, Turkey has a terrible doping history, Kenyan athletes have been known to be doped by Russian coaches/managers (there was some kind of Russian-Kenyan doping ring uncovered earlier this year) and there are some Turkish athletes with Russian coaches, of which some are Ethiopian and Kenyan.

Could all be a coincidence, of course.

I agree with Sonia! - I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with an athlete representing their adopted country when they have been in that country for many years and that country has played a part in that athlete's development. But Turkey, and several other countries are basically purchasing athletes as if the they are livestock.

Country-Jumping is the trifecta of major issues affecting global competitions, the other 2 are Doping and Age Fraud. For some odd reason, the IAAF seems to be completely incapable or unwilling to deal with Country-Jumping and Age Fraud. The IAAF is so inept on these issues that they rarely even talk about it. I understand and I'm sympathetic to the economic realities that contribute to these issues, but you have to fair to legitimate national athletes and true junior athletes.

i read somewhere the kenyans competing for turkey dont even live there ! they live and train in kenya.its the same situation with east africans being paid to run for qatar,and bahrain.they dont live or train there,either.i support immigrants right to compete for their new country,but not when they dont live there,dont train there,and are getting paid to run for them,in the name of sporting success.so,my answer is,no they have no right to be winning european titles.

Agree with "Simple Solution" who wrote :

The rule should be that an athlete can only represent :

(a) Country of your birth, or

(b) Country of your parents' birth, or

(c) Country where you have been a permanent resident and/or citizen for at least three years.

Surely even the IAAF could administer this.

TrackCoach wrote:

Country-Jumping is the trifecta of major issues affecting global competitions, the other 2 are Doping and Age Fraud. For some odd reason, the IAAF seems to be completely incapable or unwilling to deal with Country-Jumping and Age Fraud.

According to a lot of people above, they are also unwilling on the doping part.

If they are doping, get them out.

If they aren't doping, run faster.

If you are a country that doesn't have anyone faster, buy someone faster.

These "plastic Europeans" aren't killing cross country. The fact that some second tier Kenyans can tear it up shows it is already dead.

Gooner, this is exactly the rule already existent. According to the rule, athletes representing a Country and after changing citizenship are automatically allowed to compete for the new Country after 3 years from the date of the last time they competed in an institutional Championship for the previous Country. This period can be shortened to one year, but in this case the athlete needs the "release" from the old Country.

This is what happened with Wilson Kipketer (who won the WCh in 1995 and 1997 but was not allowed to compete in Olympic Games 1996) and Stephen Cherono alias Shaheen (WCh 2003-2005 thanks to the release of AK, but not allowed to compete in Athens OG 2004 because, for Olympics, the athlete has to have a specific release not from the previous Athletic Federation, but from the National Olympic Committee).

Trying to have more control about the change of citizenship, some year ago IAAF changed the rule, putting as "must" the point that athletes changing nationality had to demonstrate to be resident in the new Country for longer than 3 years.

The fact is that this rule never is followed. Some of the Countries using to take athletes from other Countries (Turkey doesn't look at African and middle distances only : they have also the sprinters Guliyev (19.88) from Azerbaijan, Harvey (9.92) from Jamaica and the European Champion of 400m hs Copello (47.92) from Cuba) have a "legal" system that is a trick : the athletes go to compete for some National Club in the Club Championships, staying in the new Country for, maybe, two weeks in one year, but the Clubs give them the yearly Visa as resident, so, when they have 3 years of "fake residence" they can officially change citizenship, according to the current rules.

The fact is that there is no way to stop athletes from competing for a new Country, if they didn't represent in official way the old Country. If I am a normal Italian citizen who wants to become, for example, Turkish, at the moment I have the new citizenship I can obviously compete for my new Country, and the ball is in the hands of the new Country, that can decide how long you have to wait for the new citizenship.

This is the case of Bahrein, that has all athletes never representing in official international championships their previous Country (Kenya or Ethiopia), so there is no legal way to stop them.

ReEnato Canova.Thanks for clarifying - very informative.

So the issue is not the existing rules per se but rather their application and enforcement.

Something has to be done

How about some kind of residency requirement (similar in concept to tax rules in some countries) - say, require athletes to stay in the adopted country for at least 120 days per year.

TrackCoach wrote:

I agree with Sonia! - I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with an athlete representing their adopted country when they have been in that country for many years and that country has played a part in that athlete's development. But Turkey, and several other countries are basically purchasing athletes as if the they are livestock.

Country-Jumping is the trifecta of major issues affecting global competitions, the other 2 are Doping and Age Fraud. For some odd reason, the IAAF seems to be completely incapable or unwilling to deal with Country-Jumping and Age Fraud. The IAAF is so inept on these issues that they rarely even talk about it. I understand and I'm sympathetic to the economic realities that contribute to these issues, but you have to fair to legitimate national athletes and true junior athletes.

Yet Sonia had no problem taking away a college scholarship from a deserving American girl. Same or similar situation to Euro 2016.

Plebescite wrote:

Sonia had many gold and silver medals ripped off from under her by Chinese and EE dopers, so if she is a bit vocal about what she sees as unethical (in this case I agree) I'll give her some slack.

Sonia competing for two different countries (Ireland and Australia and Ireland again) is pretty damn unethical and hypocritical.