Are treadmill miles valuable?

I run on the treadmill a lot from October through April.

One thing I've noticed: At the gym I go to, the treadmills are NOT created equal. I've noticed a difference of up to about 1.5 mph from one treadmill to another, for equal effort. So don't necessarily take the displayed speed value (or the displayed mile-pace) for gospel. You need to go by feel a little bit. It could be slower or faster than you expect.

I also read once that an incline of 3 degrees while running creates a significant decrease in impact on the knees, compared to flat-surface running. I can't really feel this difference outside, but I do feel it on the treadmill. You should play around with this to see if inclines are something you want to do regularly.

Another glorious 8 miles on the treadmill listening to classic rock on the headphones and watching the Price is Right!!

Life is great.

(24° snowing and windy outside)

About incline being easier on your knees, it is easier on EVERYTHING. While some treadmills are made to "give" and absorb some of the shock, I believe this also creates a bounce back effect that can be harder on muscles like the quads and simulate the force of running downhill. Your quads get tight and they pull on your knees which will give you knee pain.

I've run thousands of miles on treadmills the last few years and have some tips.

Vary your running both in speed and the use of incline. Rarely do the same workout on consecutive days.

When doing harder effort repeats, it is much easier on your legs to increase the incline rather than the speed. If increasing speed, limit the time you are really running hard.

Some treadmills will sway from side to side. Putting the incline up just .5% will alleviate that problem.

Don't get sucked in by being able to always see your pace and wanting to run fast everyday. Easy way to get injured or overtrained. Put it on an easy pace and don't touch the dials! (this is usually the hardest because these type of runs are so boring)

Don't worry about treadmill pace to outside pace. It makes no more difference than running a hilly route compared to a flat route outside. Every run is different with changes in temps, wind, terrain, effort, etc.

Enjoy!!!

The nice thing about a treadmill long run is that you can watch a full movie.

Brrrrrr wrote:

The nice thing about a treadmill long run is that you can watch a full movie.

This is super true. I've been watching a ton of movies now that it's winter, which is great because it's the only time I get to watch anything since having a kid. Love my iPad.

No, I'm fully aware of the differences that you mention, there's no lack of information on my end. My comment was stating exactly that, regardless of reasons (incline, treadmill, wind-resistance, heat) or whatever the reasons may be, I can definitely say that what I run outside, when moving inside to the treadmill, for the same effort, I typically have to dial it back to 0.8 to 1.0 mph.

I can also say from as personal standpoint that my effort in going from 0 to a 2.0 incline is not anywhere for in line with a 41 sec/mi. pace difference. There is some effort increase, but nowhere near 41 seconds for me. Closer to the

hillrunner charts.

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

The point is, I know that many of the variables encountered by myself when running outdoors, are different than indoors (pace mainly) when it comes to equating effort. But knowing these differences in variables, if I can jump indoors on a treadmill for a brief period of time, and then resume outdoors running with no drop-off in performance, then I know I've maintained the necessary stress and effort on the body, regardless of where that stress originated from.

People also have different mechanics that are affected differently. There are studies that show that glute activation is less on a treadmill then running outdoors, perhaps a person that is more glute dominant simply doesn't adapt as well to the treadmill and has to dial back the pace.

What about the nervous system? From what I understand, all humans have different reaction systems; righting vs tilting reaction systems. Righting reactions, which rely on the vestibular system, and are activities such as running over a stationary surface (outdoors) vs tilting reactions, in which the cerebellum is more highly involved, and found in activities when the surface is moving under a person (treadmill running, surfing, biking on mud).

Perhaps a person such as myself doesn't have as effective of a tilting reaction system. But maybe all this means is that I simply need to dial back the effort of the treadmill workout, by reduction in pace, to achieve the same effort as an outdoor run. So it appears that it could even be more complex than the reasons you've mentioned.

During winter break of my senior year of college, my hometown got over 2' of snow, and the roads and trails were impassible. It was also bitterly cold. I ran on the treadmill all but maybe 2-3 days out of almost 4 weeks. Lots of days, I doubled on the treadmill. I also did tempos and long runs on the treadmill. I got back to school and PRed in the 3k a week after almost a month of treadmill training. You can get a good workout on the treadmill.

I agree with the poster that said you should set the pace a little faster to get the same effect.

Hoping to add a few serious observations about treadmill running. I find it much easier to run a given pace on a treadmill than outside on the ground; i'd agree that 1-2% elevation seems to equalize the perceived effort with outdoor running. increasing the pace works, too, from an effort point of view, but that might add more of a mechanical change than you want. usually i add a bit of eleveation and a bit extra speed and i feel ok about the workload.

A second point I'd make is that treadmill running offers the opportunity to work on things that are harder to isolate running on the ground. for instance, with the treadmill set at a constant speed/elevation, you can much more easily analyze the effect of arm carriage, gait, posture, etc on perceived effort. i'm an old guy, but i still work on getting more efficient. On a treadmill i can adjust these seemingly small things just a bit and see what makes that given workload (speed/elevation) seem easier. It helps me understand a little more specifically, at least in terms of mechanics, why some runs feel better than others. We all tend to run too far forward on treadmills, which causes us to carry our arms higher than normal. Try drifting back to the middle of the belt, lower your arms a bit and you'll probably feel a bit more relaxed

One last thing. Back in the day, i had a mechanical treadmill that was essentially gravity powered. it had a brake of sorts and an elevation adjustment that regulated speed. Worked fine, but the best part was a feature of its primitive design. Under the belt there were small rollers, not a flat bed like today's treadmills. took a little getting used to, but it actually had a massaging effect that often made my legs - calves in particular - feel better after a run than when i started. i did many 15 mile runs on this beast in bad weather, and i still remember how it seemed to help. Can't remember the manufacturer, but i believe Mark Curp endorsed them.[quote]jamin wrote:

off base wrote:

You don't need to run on an incline, but if you don't you will need to run a little faster. If you want to run 10 miles at 6:00 pace, set the treadmill at 10.5 mph and run for an hour.

good luck with that

The hillrunner chart is the biggest piece of sh1t ever put on the internet and the only way that would be accurate is by chance.

The premise that as you increase the incline your increasing effort gets LESS difficult is asinine.

Let's take 8 minute pace as an example. The first mistake made is saying running outside (still wind) would be 20 seconds easier. Studies I have seen are closer to 3% than the over 4% used in the chart.

When you increase to 1% the effort gets 21 seconds harder

At 2%, you get 20 seconds harder.

At 3% you get 19

At 4% you get 17

By 10% incline you would only be running 9 seconds faster than at 9%

If you extrapolate that out, you would eventually get to an incline % (20% maybe) where the chart would show you could increase the incline as much as you wanted and would never slow down. That would be around 5:30 pace. In other words if you are capable of running 5:30 pace outside on a flat surface, you could run 8 minute pace even if the incline went to 30 or 40%. You would be GREAT at a vertical K!

Let's take the Mt Washington road race as an example. There have been very few guys go under 60 minutes. Sage Canaday and Joe Gray have run 58:27 and 58:15. That is just a shade faster than 7:42 pace. If you look at the chart, that should be equivalent to 5:51 pace at 10%. Since Mt Washington averages 11.5%, you can extrapolate out and take 8 seconds off for 11% and another 4 seconds for the last 1/2% or 12 seconds total. That means that the effort it took them to run up Mt Washington would be around a 5:39 pace.

Lets do it the other way. Since we know Sage and Joe can run 5 minute miles for an hour when racing, lets go down the chart until we find where 5 minute effort would be at 11.5%. At 9.2 mph or 6:31 pace, the chart says it would be equivalent to running 5:09 at 10%. Knock off 6 seconds to get to 11% and another 3 seconds to get to 11.5% and you are right at 5 minute pace.

According the the Hillrunner chart, Sage and Joe SHOULD HAVE been able to run up that mountain in 49:30!! (not including altitude adjustment)

Should we let them know how much they underachieved?

Do exactly what you were planning to do outside. Don't worry about increasing incline or whether it improves fitness more or less.

just freakin' run.

calorific wrote:

They are good for weight management. Not so great for training. It's easy to run an hour on a treadmill listening to music and watching TV. It's not so easy going outside in 28F with strong winds in the dark.

80 minutes treedmill versus 25 minutes running because it's unbearable?

What burns more calories?

re: "They are good for weight management. Not so great for training."

Tell that to Geb.

A mile is a mile. A mile with an incline or hills is still a mile. A mile on a treadmill is a mile. A mile on a track is a mile. A mile on grass is a mile. A mile on roads or trails is a mile. A mile is a mile.

Lol I think I just wrote a poem. You might feel different running on a treadmill versus the road but it's all credible unless you're just straight up running less on one surface and not knowing the difference. But anyways a mile is a mile.

Well, I did get outside this morning in the 12 degree wind chill. 1 mile warm-up, 8x400, 5K cool

down. In the dark, too.

Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Do some of your runs outside, some inside.

When it's icy/slippery or just plain bad, do your intervals inside. If the day calls for an easy run and it's snowing, enjoy the snow if you can fit the run during the day.

Mix it up, the treadmill does work muscles slightly differently, but any "new" stilmulus can be a welcome challenge.

I find that during the winter, for any run that is asking for a given pace or effort, you're better served on the treadmill than risking to sprain an ankle or wreck yourself on bad footing.

For recovery runs though, doesn't hurt at times to run in crappy conditions. You need some mental toughness too!

Brrrrrr wrote:

If I took to the treadmill instead on my easy days, especially during the work week, will the effect be the same as churning out road miles?

No

Obviously, Treadmill is very much valuable for us. You can check out here (https://stuffoholics.com/benefits-of-treadmill-incline/) how a treadmill will be benefited you.

very cold here in Canberra...I run on the treadmill 4 days a week for 2 1/2 to 3 miles on the weekend I run with my athletes that I coach for about 12-13 outside miles total for the 2 days. Ran 17:47 5k 2 weeks ago and turn 52 in a few months. Treadmill running is fine. Good luck!

Unless it's for a ten minute warm up for a gym sesh, treadmills are sh*t.

End of.

Treadmill is invaluable if you live in an area with snowy winters. Going out for a 10 mile easy run that ends up taking 90 minutes and is anything but easy because 15 inches of snowfall overnight? That might be fun once, but if you are living through several months of this, it's very detrimental to your training quality.