California going to votes for independence

Regular Poster wrote:

The gold rush was EIGHTEEN forty nine (1848, actually). ...

What a stupid.

Hmmmm. Provide your own stupidity. Pick one not two starts for the Rush.

US=USSR wrote:

Wonder Kid wrote:

I wonder if anyone is actually as stupid as you are pretending to be with that post.

You are ignorant about history. An unbelievably stupid little boy.

How cute - stupidity personified! I bet your 6th grade comrade geeks must just adore you.

Just Thinking wrote:

There may be no constitutional basis for CA leaving the union but there clearly is a basis for it in the Declaration of Independence. I'm not suggesting it will be good or bad but I suspect most politicians would vote no and most ordinary citizens in the remaining 49 states would vote to let them leave in order to avoid another liberal president for years. You can add the Washington and Oregon to that and the vote would be even more favorable to leave and let them leave.

If CA votes leave people in every deep blue state will scramble to leave too to avoid being overrun by conservative Christian rule. (Many on the coasts are already terrified about this due to the unbalanced incoming government.) Voters in probably 20+ red states would be elated, having no clue how bad it would be for their economies (see Donald Trump, Brownbeck, Jindal, etc). Those voters don't apply the thoughtful logic being stated in this thread. Add up combinations and you can probably find a scenario where the citizens and MAYBE state governments of 40+ states favor dissolution.

Not Red wrote:

Not all of CA is liberal wrote:

Orange County is very red and pro-Trump.

Nope. Voted Clinton (51%) BIGLY over Trump (43%). Try to keep up.

http://www.ocvote.com/fileadmin/live/gen2016/results.htm

True Clinton won Orange County, California, but this was a fluke, Orange County has voted for the Republican Presidential every time since 1936, This was an unusual election with many of the top Republicans distancing themselves from Trump, George W. and H.W. and Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney and John Kasich all distanced themselves from Trump and George W. Bush is extremely popular in California, the elder Bush WON the VERY BLUE state of California in 1988 (Reagan and Nixon also did, but only because they were Californians and had strong connections), this election was an anomaly look for Orange County to vote Red for the rest of the century, I guess it goes blue about every 80 years, just really unusual circumstances this year.

douglas burke wrote:

True Clinton won Orange County, California, but this was a fluke, Orange County has voted for the Republican Presidential every time since 1936

The fluke is that Trump won. Lost the popular vote. Lost Orange County CA forevermore. OC is the demographic of the future. Less and less republican control as old whites people move, and new people move in. Florida will swing left permanently the next election cycle.

IN THE ELECTION NEWS: Voting discrepancies have been found in PA, MI and WA. Electronic voting machines in Clinton dominated areas seem to be missing votes that were cast. It is unknown whether Clinton will ask for an investigation or not.

Have they asked democrats in the other 49 states how they feel about this?

In order for democrats to stand tall in 2020 they probably need their strongest leg still attached, not cut off.

California exiting the union would bankrupt the USA. Also, Oregon and Washington want in as well as Hawaii. The USA would fight tooth and nail not to let this happen.

California currently has the 6th largest GNP in the world and if it legalizes weed make it the 4th or 5th largest. Oregon and Washington are also on board, and if that happens they will have the water, the agriculture, all of the international West Coast shipping ports and trade routes, plus we won't need oil in ten years with full, unfettered access to solar and clean energy.

California won't need fossil fuels or the USA. California also possesses several of the top universities and corners the market on advanced medicine. In addition, California has the agriculture, California has Silicon Valley and tech industries, California has the entertainment, media and sports industry all locked up. California possesses numerous nuclear labs and facilities, as well as military bases in all branches so that would need to be worked out. To add to that, California pays out far more in taxes than it receives from the Federal government. America would quickly spiral into a depression if California left the union.

You are not paying attention wrote:

California exiting the union would bankrupt the USA.

So, the USA is incapable or existing without Democrats sending them more money than their fair share. Nice to know.

You are not paying attention wrote:

California exiting the union would bankrupt the USA. Also, Oregon and Washington want in as well as Hawaii.

What if the other 46 states left to form The GUS (The Greater United States) and left those four you mention with the accumulated budget deficit? :-P

That can't happen. The nation's capitol is in Washington, D.C. They will retain their debt and quickly become a welfare nation.

You are not paying attention wrote:

That can't happen. The nation's capitol is in Washington, D.C. They will retain their debt and quickly become a welfare nation.

Heeeeey! That's an idea. Why don't all 50 states break away from D.C. to form a new country and leave the $20 trillion debt to D.C.? I LIKE that idea!

Polly Plumper wrote:

Many historians believe that when the Confederacy surrendered n 1865, the idea of secession was also defeated. The Union's victory set a precedent that secession would no longer be allowed. Texas' case is unusual in that is was admitted to the Union with a promise that it would never secede.

1949 wrote:

Hello, fool, Hello. California was not part of the US in 1865.

We joined in the US in 1850.

All of the geniuses who want to secede also vote for gun control. Kinda wish you had those extra large magazines now, don't you Cali??

Also, if the state votes to pull out of the US, once the secession ball starts rolling, California will probably break into six different regions--suck it Bay Area and LA--no more California water project for you!! What are you going to do, fight to take back your water rights with a non-existent military? Look at the OP's picture, even the protestors can't STAND to fight for separation, they need to sit down, they are so world-weary.

Secession is never going to happen.

In case you hadn't noticed, the US is already bankrupt. Check the US debt. There is no way we are paying that back, just a matter of time before we implode under the interest obligations....if CA was smart, they would get out now. Think of the social rules they could put in place. They would tax you through the wazooo to buy a soda, but would have the government subsidize marijuana.

Dos, i am not sure you are being balanced or thoughtful,

I agree that the US has problems. We certainly don't have the level of debt that,, for example, China has, or for that matter, Japan, but it is a serious problem.

If California were to leave, they would take on a portion of that debt, particularly as they would have to carry out existing entitlement benefits in one measure or another.

And California's public pension hole is so deep it really cannot discerned. Certainly the current 7.5% rate of return upon which CALPERS and other pensions are based is a fantasy. Like most blue states with pension problems, it is likely that are looking someday to a federal government bailout. This is why losing an election is so painful to Democrats. It puts matters such as a federal bail--out of state pensions (the recipients being the second most reliable Democratic voting bloc after the black community) out of reach for another extended period.

California has tremendous resources, but they also spend a lot. A California nation state would start with a considerable hole, perhaps per capita worse than the US as a whole. I am not sure what Californians are thinking.

If California leaves, do we get to "keep" their Social Security and Medicare assets? Of course I know that there are no assets in those programs to keep, only obligations, but the people of California don't know that.

If they left would the rest of us be free from paying their Soc Sec and Medicare? I think so. Their new country called "Utopia" would have to take over that burden.

DiscoGary wrote:

If California leaves, do we get to "keep" their Social Security and Medicare assets? Of course I know that there are no assets in those programs to keep, only obligations, but the people of California don't know that.

The US would refuse to do a cash payout for money they already took. The US doesn't have the money.

The secession process for entitlements would work like retirement accounts. The USA would continue to owe, and would pay out over time--as already set up--, SS and Medicare money. Like a change in the company you work for the US obligation is only up to the point of secession. After that new CA-SS and CA-Medicare would cover new contribution and obligations.

With the above method a retire could live anyplace they chose. CA, Anywhere USA, or a foreign country. Their benefits earned wherever are still there.

California won't break up internally, other than possibly north and south. There is too much money for the rest of the state in the Bay Area sustaining water-rich communities for that to change. And most of the Bay Area has water rights that supersede all other state municipalities. Also, Oregon and Washington are on board and have lots of water.

We generate the 6th-largest GNP in the world. 4th largest with legal weed. Without the Feds draining us dry for taxes and handouts to the broke redneck states we would be a venerable cornucopia of abundance. And the Feds would make good on everything since we would control a huge percentage of Outer Redneck USA access to seaports and food supply. F*k with California and you'd starve or be forced to import food from elsewhere but only on the Eastern seaboard and at 2x-3x the cost.

How would you determine citizenship? I was born there, but moved away. Would I have dual citizenship so i could move back there if I wanted?

Topic two: Would a California exit mean the other 49 states would be better shielded when the Bay Area economy collapses from the tech and housing bubbles and the coming earthquake?