Wimpy cop shoots and kills 66-year-old woman holding bat

Wow, you are really, REALLY bad at this.

I pointed out a glaring flaw in the "logic" of a poster.

Let me know if you need definitions of such challenging words as "did", "flaw" and "of". I will be more than happy to help you out.

All that training in Israel has turned our cops into racist cowards.

how we do it. wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Nice speculation, any evidence for any of that?

You must not know any police officers.

Some of the issue with police fitness can also be pinned on the police unions. Fitness tests, after academy, are either very watered down or non existent, which helps both women and older officers. I am in the National Guard and have seen full time civillian police officers that cannot pass the very simple Air Force fitness test. And this is a larger metro area.

That also differs by department of course. I know a couple of State Police and they seem to have higher standards.

Another issue that I see in cases like this is that we expect our police officers to my mental health specialists. The call to 911 reported a woman in a mental health crisis. The woman was known to police as they had several calls for her prior to this.

Was she ever treated for her mental health issues? Why can't a mental health specialists respond to an incident like this?

This cop will probably go to prison, rightfully so based on the early story, but we cannot expect them to always effectively deal with these types of situations. Maybe 90% of the police would have handled this differently but there is always that one guy.

how we do it. wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Nice speculation, any evidence for any of that?

You must not know any police officers.

Some of the issue with police fitness can also be pinned on the police unions. Fitness tests, after academy, are either very watered down or non existent, which helps both women and older officers. I am in the National Guard and have seen full time civillian police officers that cannot pass the very simple Air Force fitness test. And this is a larger metro area.

That also differs by department of course. I know a couple of State Police and they seem to have higher standards.

I would agree that police departments overall have issues with a lot of out of shape officers (although this is entirely anecdotal on my part as well as I have no studies to offer). I can see the logic that this would lead to more deadly encounters but I see no reason to believe that it is true. There are a number of factors, perhaps aggressive training tactics chief among them, that I suspect are more likely to be responsible for a great deal of the violence.

Blaming these standards on women seems particularly dubious. Women make up a very small part of the leadership of either departments or union leadership who help write the standards. Also anecdotal, but the eomen officers I see seem far less likely to be in pkkr physical condition.

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

I pointed out a glaring flaw in the "logic" of a poster.

So... you really meant to demonstrate his lack of reason with an example that equally lacked reason? In this case you succeeded brilliantly.

Except you really meant your post. Really, truly, deep down you believed in it.

[cue slow clap]

Nonsense. Why are you blaming this on female officers? Women aren't necessarily less fit than men in a fat police officers setting anyway! Nearly all the shootings by 'unfit' officers so far have been old White guys!

Truth is, police cannot be arsed to deal with a situation properly (the training), are genuinely afraid of getting hurt all the time (the training), and don't know of other ways of dealing with a situation other than pointing a gun at a suspect (the training).

The use of violence always escalates any situation until one of the people is unconscious or dead.

More than 124,000 calls dealing with mentally deranged people. Sounds like those cops have done a pretty decent job to limit the number of mishaps to one mistake.

Hi son wrote:

Guess she should have listened to a cop pointing a GUN at her.

Is that so hard?

If you had a gun on you as well as a taser, and a 66 year old woman who was acting crazy came at you with a baseball bat, would you shoot her?

I do not have the training a police officer has, but, I can disarm an old woman with a baseball bat without using either a taser or a gun. I also, as a civilian, have a decreased responsibility in how I behave toward a civilian than a police officer has.

The police commissioner already admitted that they failed - it is obvious that this was a failure. The fault does not lie with the mentally ill old woman, but the police officer who responded wrongly to the gravity of the situation.

I have sympathy for the police and respect for the tough job that they do. But there is a clear overreaction problem which is occurring - where some police are escalating to going to lethal force when it's clearly not required. I'm not sure the cause of this, although fear, prejudices, improper training, all do come to play. It's clearly a judgement issue with the individual officers that needs to be addressed - hopefully in the form of more training and follow up annual training. I would also like to see more assessments done on suitability. I think there are some people who choose to become police officers who are just not the right fit for the job and what it requires.

logical leap wrote:

Hi son wrote:

Guess she should have listened to a cop pointing a GUN at her.

Is that so hard?

"Do what the government says or the government will shoot you," say small government conservatives.

The Federal government is gargantuan. Consider these words by a US President, though he often failed miserably in living up to his ideals: "The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government." --Thomas Jefferson to Maryland Republicans, 1809. ME 16:359

I am conservative and think one of the few duties of government is to protect those within its borders: this includes providing military and police forces. Your attempt at highlighting an irony is weak. I could do without a National Endowment for the Arts, for example, however delightful some of the arts may be.

off base wrote:

A wimpy, scaredy-cat, weakling cop shot and killed a 66-year-old woman who had a baseball bat as a weapon. The cop had a taser and decided he would rather kill. This certainly doesn't help the public perception of power hungry violent police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/19/new-york-police-sergeant-fatally-shoots-emotionally-disturbed-woman-in-the-bronx/?utm_term=.4b41d420b445

This is similar to the Eleanor Bumpers case:

The taser does not reliably disable. So the choice still comes down to getting into a wrestling match, using a deadly force, or allowing the individual to go unapprehended. Three bad choices. Sometimes that third choice is the correct one, but it also has its risks.

notrump wrote:

The taser does not reliably disable. So the choice still comes down to getting into a wrestling match, using a deadly force, or allowing the individual to go unapprehended. Three bad choices. Sometimes that third choice is the correct one, but it also has its risks.

I don't think a taser would have trouble taking down a 66 year old woman.

Gordon Lightfart wrote:

Living in America wrote:

Do what the police tell you to do or they are free to kill you.

Do not reach toward anything or the police are free to kill you.

Do not say or do anything that might make a police officer later say he/she was fearful of injury or they are free to kill you.

Don't be drunk, high on drugs, or mentally ill in the presence of the police or the police are free to kill you.

If you are ever in any of those situations and the police did not kill you, you should be thankful to the police for showing you mercy.

F U and the pigs. You are a coward.

Said the man not using his name

Too bad, she would have done better than the middle of the Cubs lineup.

Good for the cop.

If you go after a cop with a baseball bat..

Maybe you'll get shot.

Im sure the person that started this thread would have reasoned with her.

he needs to sponsor some training for all the brave souls that protect us every day.

To improve what they do.

Please submit your name to the nearest police precinct office.

Clit McTorius wrote:

More than 124,000 calls dealing with mentally deranged people. Sounds like those cops have done a pretty decent job to limit the number of mishaps to one mistake.

If that "one mistake" killed your family member, you would think differently.

And shooting a 66 year old woman who was armed with a bat isn't a "mistake." It's an execution.

There is so much ignorance in this thread. Where do we start? This cop will not go to prison as somebody stated. That's a ridiculous statement. This cop may deserve to go to prison, and in my opinion definitely deserve to lose their job. The most physically fit 66 yo woman on the planet could be disarmed very easily by anybody who can pass the physical standards test to become a cop. Yes, even the older fat slob cops.

I have had a few interactions with police and all have left me feeling sick. They were all egomaniac, smug a-holes. And I was on the bright side of the interaction. I also know several cops personally. I refuse to call them friends because they are all exactly the same. egomaniacs who think they're tough guys and are always looking to prove it.

Not all cops fit this description, but a helluva lot do. There's no crime in criticizing the profession.

notrump wrote:

The taser does not reliably disable. So the choice still comes down to getting into a wrestling match, using a deadly force, or allowing the individual to go unapprehended. Three bad choices. Sometimes that third choice is the correct one, but it also has its risks.

You're an idiot. There's no way this woman should have been shot.

Get help.

how we do it. wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Nice speculation, any evidence for any of that?

You must not know any police officers.

Some of the issue with police fitness can also be pinned on the police unions. Fitness tests, after academy, are either very watered down or non existent, which helps both women and older officers. I am in the National Guard and have seen full time civillian police officers that cannot pass the very simple Air Force fitness test. And this is a larger metro area.

That also differs by department of course. I know a couple of State Police and they seem to have higher standards.

Forget the physical fitness levels (or lack thereof) of cops. Attention should be focused on their warped mindset. In this case, a man shot a mentally challenged woman dead. Think about that...... For what? You can't disarm a 66 year old female? Was the cop's life threatened? Of course not......

The only way this will stop is if cops are held accountable for their crimes.