Why is Francine Niyonsaba considered intersex?

jasonkiddnba wrote:

This article is a very good explanation of intersex athletes:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/brief-history-intersex-athletes-sport/

(please read it)

In particular how there are two different categories:

[1] Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) [Eg Dutee Chand)

[2] Five alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD) [Eg Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba, Margaret Wambui, Kabange Mupopo, Brittney Griner in the WNBA)

The article states:

"In each case, babies are born with the Y chromosome normally associated with maleness, but with mutations that often cause them to be assigned into the female gender. Despite outward appearances, however, people with either of these Differences of Sexual Development will not develop internal female organs due to the influence of the Y chromosome. Instead, their gonads will develop as testes, and they may or may not form other internal male organs.

AIS people have a mutation which prevents testosterone (T) from being absorbed by the body; hence there will be plenty of T in the blood, but virtually none in other cells. Those with AIS usually look like any other woman from the outside. Since there is no T uptake in the body, any athletic advantage they might have over other women is very small.

Those born with 5-ARD have a mutation which prevents the creation of dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in the body. DHT is a powerful androgen which triggers the formation of male genitalia. Thus, 5-ARD babies are often assigned female gender. Unlike AIS people, however, those with 5-ARD are affected by the T in their system and become much more masculine at puberty. This can give them a very large athletic advantage over other women."

Therefore, those with AIS (eg Dutee Chand), have no real advantage. So that is what the Court for Arbitration of Sport (CAS) wanted the IAAF to prove. That the IAAF needs to show that people with AIS have any advantage. The answer is no they don't. They therefore should be allowed to compete, as is.

BUT!

Those with 5-ARD (eg Caster Semenya) have a significant advantage. To put things into perspective, normal testosterone range for men is 10 - 35 nmol/L (nanomole per liter), with an average in the low twenties, and for women it is 0.35 - 2.0 nmol/L, with an average of about 1.5.

The testosterone levels of athletes with 5-ARD was around 21 nmol/L. Ten times the level of the average female. This is the category that Caster Semenya is in! The CAS got it wrong. They grouped everyone in the same category. Ridiculous considering that there are two categories!

Woman's Perspective wrote:

jasonkiddnba wrote:

This article is a very good explanation of intersex athletes:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/brief-history-intersex-athletes-sport/

(please read it)

In particular how there are two different categories:

[1] Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) [Eg Dutee Chand)

[2] Five alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD) [Eg Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba, Margaret Wambui, Kabange Mupopo, Brittney Griner in the WNBA)

The article states:

"In each case, babies are born with the Y chromosome normally associated with maleness, but with mutations that often cause them to be assigned into the female gender. Despite outward appearances, however, people with either of these Differences of Sexual Development will not develop internal female organs due to the influence of the Y chromosome. Instead, their gonads will develop as testes, and they may or may not form other internal male organs.

AIS people have a mutation which prevents testosterone (T) from being absorbed by the body; hence there will be plenty of T in the blood, but virtually none in other cells. Those with AIS usually look like any other woman from the outside. Since there is no T uptake in the body, any athletic advantage they might have over other women is very small.

Those born with 5-ARD have a mutation which prevents the creation of dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in the body. DHT is a powerful androgen which triggers the formation of male genitalia. Thus, 5-ARD babies are often assigned female gender. Unlike AIS people, however, those with 5-ARD are affected by the T in their system and become much more masculine at puberty. This can give them a very large athletic advantage over other women."

Therefore, those with AIS (eg Dutee Chand), have no real advantage. So that is what the Court for Arbitration of Sport (CAS) wanted the IAAF to prove. That the IAAF needs to show that people with AIS have any advantage. The answer is no they don't. They therefore should be allowed to compete, as is.

BUT!

Those with 5-ARD (eg Caster Semenya) have a significant advantage. To put things into perspective, normal testosterone range for men is 10 - 35 nmol/L (nanomole per liter), with an average in the low twenties, and for women it is 0.35 - 2.0 nmol/L, with an average of about 1.5.

The testosterone levels of athletes with 5-ARD was around 21 nmol/L. Ten times the level of the average female. This is the category that Caster Semenya is in! The CAS got it wrong. They grouped everyone in the same category. Ridiculous considering that there are two categories!

Yes, this is the correct explanation and "intersex" is a misnomer, but I'm beginning to think that those at CAS and on social media have a ADD.

Yes, "Semenya has a vagina", they will claim. Obviously unaware that 5-ARD children are usually surgically catered for when very young to make life easier for them.

"Yes, but Niyonsaba looks more feminine than the rest". I can honestly say that I have never got the impression Niyonsaba is a woman. To me she looks like that typical short boyish male type. She appears visibly to have all the typical secondary sexual adaptations that males have, and an undershot jaw is not a female jaw.

"You are racist" they claim. Because apparently many men in certain parts of Africa look like women, they will claim. Apparently also, according to some, these Africans cannot have 5-ARD syndrome, despite consanguity being relatively common in some parts leading to greater prevalence.

"Semenya should be allowed to run to appease the South Africans because of the terrible things they have been through" they write. Hmmn I'm pretty sure that other parts of the world also suffered terrible things in their history too.

harry wales wrote:

Woman's Perspective wrote:

Yes, this is the correct explanation and "intersex" is a misnomer, but I'm beginning to think that those at CAS and on social media have a ADD.

Yes, "Semenya has a vagina", they will claim. Obviously unaware that 5-ARD children are usually surgically catered for when very young to make life easier for them.

"Yes, but Niyonsaba looks more feminine than the rest". I can honestly say that I have never got the impression Niyonsaba is a woman. To me she looks like that typical short boyish male type. She appears visibly to have all the typical secondary sexual adaptations that males have, and an undershot jaw is not a female jaw. Who would have thought....http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/jamie.asp

"You are racist" they claim. Because apparently many men in certain parts of Africa look like women, they will claim. Apparently also, according to some, these Africans cannot have 5-ARD syndrome, despite consanguity being relatively common in some parts leading to greater prevalence.

"Semenya should be allowed to run to appease the South Africans because of the terrible things they have been through" they write. Hmmn I'm pretty sure that other parts of the world also suffered terrible things in their history too.

Don't hermaphrodites (Jamie Lee Curtis) have "corrective/assignment" surgery at birth? Did Semenya have any form of surgery in infancy?

Are any of the mentioned above married to men?

Awsi Dooger wrote:

I increasingly appreciate Niyonsaba, similar to a few others who have posted in this thread. She seems to have a playful personality. I also like middle distance runners who go to the front.

If Niyonsaba has a testosterone edge it's a fraction of Semenya's. Watch that stretch run today, or any 800 when they are together. Niyonsaba's face in straining as she gives everything she has.

Meanwhile Semenya is mostly trying to make sure she doesn't win by too much or too fast. The outcome itself is a mere formality and today was no surprise. As I posted a couple of days ago Semenya screws around in run of the mill races but always allows greater margin in the championship races.

She wasn't tired at all to end that race.

And she could have done exactly the same thing in the 1500 other than not daring draw double scrutiny on herself. A struggling third actually makes her case look better. At least that's the way she thinks of it and that's what she was trying to accomplish in that race.

The worst opinion in sports is that Semenya is not sandbagging. Nothing could be more wrong than that.