NRR - Thinking of completely giving up alcohol

???!!?!?!? wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

Ummmm...... on the front page of most every friggin newspaper in the world. Look in your paper today & tell me how many seconds before you read of an alcohol related death.

Alcohol related death has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether beer in moderation is detrimental to your health. That's like saying that running will kill you because one time a guy had a heart attack at the end of a marathon.

If approximately 240 people were dying in marathons every single day, your analogy might work. Because that's the estimated number of alcohol related deaths that occur every day in America, per the CDC.

Look, I know lots of people drink moderately and it never causes a problem in their lives. But I also know several people whose lives and families have been ruined by alcohol, including my own dad's (yes, this makes me biased). For me, it falls in the "not worth the risk" category.

gohawkeyes wrote:

a 12 oz beer usually has 150 calories from wheat. If you drink 5 on a night out that is a lot. Obviously 1 or 2 isn't that detrimental

......... wrote:

Zero calories from wheat. 150 calories from barley. Most beer doesn't contain wheat, unless it's specifically a wheat beer :-)

Anyway, having some calories if consumed in excess is not an argument for something being detrimental to your health. I could make the same argument for bananas. The alcohol itself, in excess, is of course a real issue, but from what I've read consumption of beer in moderation actually carries some health benefits.

Correction: the calories from beer, or any alcoholic drink, come directly from your body metabolizing the alcohol into energy and has nothing to do with the other ingredients.

The beer, without alcohol, would be a zero calorie "tea" as the way beer is made is the steeping of grains; the difference being that sugar is produced in this process. Yeast remove the sugar and if you stopped there and drank it, the beer would be a sugary tea-like drink that your body would derive calories from using the sugar. Instead, the yeast metabolize the sugar for you and replace it with the alcohol that your body instead uses for energy.

Just some facts. There is a lot of misinformation about how drinking beer makes you fat. i.e. it's not the beer, its what you eat while drinking, or its the darker beer. While darker beer can have higher alcohol content, and therefore more calories, a doulbe IPA can have many more calories and be light in color.

hobble jogger wrote:

The beer, without alcohol, would be a zero calorie "tea" as the way beer is made is the steeping of grains; the difference being that sugar is produced in this process. Yeast remove the sugar and if you stopped there and drank it, the beer would be a sugary tea-like drink that your body would derive calories from using the sugar. Instead, the yeast metabolize the sugar for you and replace it with the alcohol that your body instead uses for energy.

Not quite true. There are various unfermentable complex carbs and proteins that remain in the beer after fermentation. These are some of the compounds that give beer its body (and to a lesser extent, its color). Look up crystal or caramel malts for more info on the common grains used for these. Some brewers also use lactose (see: milk stout).

These unfermentables add plenty of calories. Not nearly as much as the alcohol but certainly not insignificant. And not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things. Both are pretty much "empty" calories, although beer does offer some vitamins, minerals, and a bit of protein.

I come from a generation of hardy partiers and a family of hard core drinkers. I gave it up at age 47 and to my surprise, nobody I know gave me any grief. Many expressed that they'd like to give it up as well.

As far as not drinking at social events such as work-related gigs, or weddings, nobody really give a rat's ass...they probably figured more for them.

Do what you want.

Exactly, lets do a quick calculation for my favorite brew - guinness stout (4.3% alcohol).The calorie content from consuming 1 ounce of pure alcohol is ~198.4So for a 12 ounce serving:12 ounces x 0.043 x 198.4 cal/ounce = ~102.4 calThe total calorie content in 12 ounces of guinness is 176. So roughly 58% of the caloric content is from the alcohol.Other point: IMO, there is no study, nor could there ever be a proper study designed to prove or disprove the benefits/deleterious effects from moderate alcohol consumption. There are just too many variables at play. People need to use common sense. Don't rely on poorly designed, agenda-driven research.

I never had any problems and I just quit. Initially because I was raising my son by myself, but it just became easier to say I don't drink alcohol. Most people just think I had a drinking problem, but it doesn't bother me. I have only had a few drinks 4-6 and most I didn't finish since 1999.

If you do quit make sure to be super self righteous about it and tell everyone you don't drink. That way they'll know you are morally superior.

If you just quit and STFU nobody will notice and you won't get the attention you deserve for your bravery.

'.......'...' wrote:

If you do quit make sure to be super self righteous about it and tell everyone you don't drink. That way they'll know you are morally superior.

If you just quit and STFU nobody will notice and you won't get the attention you deserve for your bravery.

Good call. And while you're at it become vegan and take up running as a hobby.

OP. This is a lot of good advice. Really I just wanted opinions on a few things.

At 32 it is very rarely it is peer pressure. But last night was a classic example why I think it is hard to stop completely. My friend is a lawyer at a good law firm in town. He is a friend from college and we partied a lot in college. He is a work hard play hard kind of guy, maybe borderline alcoholic.

His law firm invited ppl from my company to a drinks event at a steakhouse where we got drinks and appetizers. Literally 10 partners from the law firm were there and very senior guys at my company were there as well (some I had never met in person). A waitress went by and every single person before and after me ordered alcohol. In my opinion it would have looked a bit strange not to order. I know some of you are going to gripe that this has nothing to do with your actual job, but relationships matter, especially meeting senior partners at a law firm. For better or worse first impressions count for a lot, and I think to not order would have been bad. Call it peer pressure, but I think many of you know exactly what I am talking about. Again some of these were very successful and people with influence in their respective fields. I can say first hand I would want to hire the lawyer (in the case they were trying to get us to hire them) that I had the best relationship with. Part of building that relationship is socializing.

Back to my friend. He was well behaved last night, but easily downed 5 drinks without anyone noticing. He will still frequently go out on Friday and drink 10 - 12 drinks and black out. When he wants to be, he is incredibly rude and insulting when he drinks.

So two question for the forum

1) In a setting like I described, what would you do? Impressions matter for better or worse. Call it peer pressure, call it what you will but there is ALWAYS an element of schmoozing in many business settings

2) Would you consider my friend an alcoholic?

Your friend sounds just like one of my ex friends. Also a lawyer, huge weekend drinker, and total *sshole when drunk. I got sick of him and dropped him as a friend a few years after college. Was tired of going out, watching him get hammered, and then having to get him/us out of various trouble. He always tried to fight bouncers. He is not a big guy. In retrospect I wish I'd let one of them kick his *ss, just once. Your friend is probably not an alcoholic yet but probably has alcoholic tendencies. In my opinion friends like this are not worth keeping around.

In the situation you describe, where they're trying to get you to hire them? No pressure at all. I would order a club soda or tonic water with lime. If the reverse was true -- an interview or something -- then it's a bit trickier and I agree there can be some pressure. But you can still show some backbone and just do it. If anyone asks, just say you like to keep your mind sharp. How can anyone possibly object to that?

Are you concerned about being/becoming an alcoholic? Do you have a hard time stopping after one? Or are you just looking to cut back for health reasons?

I'm not a big drinker - never had an issue with over indulging, I just don't enjoy it. In the above situation, I'd order a single drink and nurse it the entire night. You get through the drink order without calling attention to yourself, if that's a concern, and you don't feel rude "rejecting" their offer. The occasional (how often do these situations really come up?) drink over the course of a few hours isn't going to have any measurable health effects.

If you have concerns about alcoholism or really don't feel like drinking, just order a water or some other kind of non-alcoholic drink. Don't make a big deal about it and nobody else will.

1. Order a water. If you don't make a big deal about it, no one else will. It's a professional business setting, not a frat party. Socializing does not equal drinking. At least it shouldn't for an adult.

2. At the least, he's a problem drinker.

OP, you are wise to quit drinking; don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. I cannot think of one single person I know whose health has benefited as a result of drinking alcohol. In fact, almost every single person I know has been negatively affected by alcohol consumption (either their own or someone else's), in one form or another.

One reason I do not drink is because of the negative effects it has had on most of the people close to me. My late father was an alcoholic, and my mother and brother are too. It has been demonstrated that alcohol is toxic, and a detriment to public health [1], [2]. In fact, according to [3] alcohol was the fourth leading cause of preventable death in the US during 2014. I don't understand why everyone brags about excess drinking, IMHO it makes you look dumb.

Even if it weren't for all of these terrible consequences of alcohol overconsumption, I still wouldn't drink it. I don't like feeling drunk, and alcohol tends to make me me lazy.

OP, to answer your questions.

1) Yes, there is almost always an element of schmoozing in many business settings. I don't really look at it that way, I prefer to look at it in terms of relationship building. That said, I will not have a relationship with someone who pressures me to drink, regardless of the situation. It is that simple. Since you sound like you're in law, I would imagine the peer pressure would certainly be higher. However, if I were you, I still wouldn't want even professional relationships with people who pressured me to drink.

2) Since you say

"He will still frequently go out on Friday and drink 10 - 12 drinks and black out. When he wants to be, he is incredibly rude and insulting when he drinks."

it sounds like he is definitely alcoholic, since his behavior is negatively impacting his health and those around him. Based on his behavior towards others alone, he should limit his alcohol consumption

Personally, it sounds like the person you refer to isn't much of a friend. IMHO, someone who pressures you to drink and/or acts the way your friend does probably isn't a friend.

It brightens my heart to see threads like this, when excess drinking is so often glorified.

References

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[1]BBC:

[2]NIH:

[3] Stahre, M.; Roeber, J.; Kanny, D.; et al. Contribution of excessive alcohol consumption to deaths and years of potential life lost in the United States. Preventing Chronic Disease 11:E109, 2014

brofest2016 wrote:

So two question for the forum

1) In a setting like I described, what would you do? Impressions matter for better or worse. Call it peer pressure, call it what you will but there is ALWAYS an element of schmoozing in many business settings

2) Would you consider my friend an alcoholic?

1. You don't need to refrain from drinking in this setting. Does every single person drink? In the Air Force I had one job assignment in the flying world, and they were like the lawyers: work hard, play hard. There were people in that environment who didn't drink, though, and they weren't ostracized.

Is everyone in this setting getting hammered? Are you getting hammered in this setting and finding it to be a problem?

2. From what you've told us it sounds like your friend might have a serious problem, hard for me to say he's an alcoholic or not.

Also, I agree with those who mentioned to order a water and not make a big deal about it. This is what I usually do, and it turns out ok :). It may not be as big of a deal as you think it is.

I should also add: I suspect runners are more prone to addictive behavior than non runners. I all but stopped hanging around people in a local running club because all they seemed concerned with was getting their run over with so they could drink. Definitely some problem drinkers if not alcoholics in that group. After watching my dad go down that road, I don't care to be around it anymore.

ralphie wrote:

I should also add: I suspect runners are more prone to addictive behavior than non runners. I all but stopped hanging around people in a local running club because all they seemed concerned with was getting their run over with so they could drink. Definitely some problem drinkers if not alcoholics in that group. After watching my dad go down that road, I don't care to be around it anymore.

I too suspect that runners are more prone to addictive behavior than non-runners, and also watched my dad go down that road. I don't want to be around it any more either. Kudos to you ralphie.

I'm 24 and a year or two out of college. Drinking is definitely one of the things that's changing in my life. Towards the end of college I started blacking out pretty easily, and then that carried over to when I traveled and up until a few months ago. I kept saying I would stop drinking for the mental and health benefits and I would never drink on weeknights or alone or just for fun. It was always a social thing. But then one night in the city I basically ended up getting mugged big time. After that I stopped, but now I find myself sliding back into it whenever there is a really good social reason.

At this age, it's very difficult to not partake in drinking. If you use Tinder/Bumble to go on a date, having a drink on the first or second date is almost necessary to break through that awkward wall of basically having nothing in common except wanting to meet someone of the opposite gender. I've gotten much much better at not using it as a social crutch. I think within the next year I will be better at socializing without it than before with it.

Just a very difficult thing in your mid-20's as people still carry over their habits from college, but now have the money to support hitting the bar.

My solution is to still drink (usually 2 or 3 pints) when there is a really good reason to. Like meeting new people that you think will add value to your life, a cool girl that you would actually want to date, and family events that don't come nearly as often as you'd like. I must admit that I've been out in the city recently and have had like 5 drinks or so... which I'm trying to cut back.

Overall, drinking is just a crutch to keep you from manning up and self actualizing yourself. Anybody who wants to become the best person they can be, will stop drinking or just use 1 or 2 drinks as a social tool.

29 y/o guy who doesn't drink wrote:

ralphie wrote:

I should also add: I suspect runners are more prone to addictive behavior than non runners. I all but stopped hanging around people in a local running club because all they seemed concerned with was getting their run over with so they could drink. Definitely some problem drinkers if not alcoholics in that group. After watching my dad go down that road, I don't care to be around it anymore.

I too suspect that runners are more prone to addictive behavior than non-runners, and also watched my dad go down that road. I don't want to be around it any more either. Kudos to you ralphie.

This is a worthwhile post,especially compared to the other stuff here.

As for peer pressure, when I got out of college I worked for a big accounting firm, a and talk about boozing, especially at conferences and conventions away from home. It lead me into years of over drinking with bad results.