Who can seriously defend Semenya and the other intersex ?

erik wrote:

there is a difference between disagreeing with the rules allowing Semenya to compete and disagreeing with her personal choice to compete.

I firmly disagree with the rules allowing her to compete (knowing what we know) but do not begrudge her personal choice.

I do. How can any self-respecting person get enjoyment from beating people when you haev such an obvious and unfair advantage?

liberal sprinter wrote:

...It simply shouldn't be against other female athletes who are at a stark disadvantage.

Can someone remind me what the reasoning was behind allowing her to compete without any hormone regulation therapy? If I remember correctly, didn't her time shoot up to 2:04-5 when they required it?

CAS reversed the previous IAAF(?) ruling that T could not be higher than 10. (Normal female range is 0.5 to 2.4. The 99th percentile is, I think from memory, 3.

Castor's time slowed to 2:04 when she was on T suppression drugs. And then dropped to 1:55 when CAS reversed the ruling. From this, we can infer that Caster's T level was significantly higher than 10 before taking T suppression drugs. The lower level for males is generally considered to be 20, but I think some experts cite 10 as the lower level.

So from a statistical point of view, this is a no-brainer.

t's back to cheerleading for the likes of Bishop. Maybe a porn career for Jozwik. Those guys on the podium are having a hearty laugh.

Men everywhere thank the LGBT/SJW community for putting us back on top!

mypredictor wrote:

The simple questions are 1. What is the testosterone limit and 2. what is his recent test result? If he passes the test (and if the test limits are fairly placed) he can compete. If he's over the limit then he can't.

Oh and stop called him a her. You sound like a child.

There is no limit for men like Semenya who call themselves women.

Thus he has had no recent test result. When there were limits in place after 2009, he did not adhere to them except for a limited time, which then greatly affected his performance and he stopped competing during that period of time.

liberal sprinter wrote:

I identify as a liberal on social issues but I am against allowing Semenya to race against someone like Bishop. We can't have people like her putting in four hard years of training, only to get crushed by an athlete who has an biological advantage that has been scientifically proven to enhance speed/power/etc. to levels unattainable by a true female athlete.

I feel the same way.

fisky wrote:

CAS reversed the previous IAAF(?) ruling that T could not be higher than 10. (Normal female range is 0.5 to 2.4. The 99th percentile is, I think from memory, 3.

Castor's time slowed to 2:04 when she was on T suppression drugs. And then dropped to 1:55 when CAS reversed the ruling. From this, we can infer that Caster's T level was significantly higher than 10 before taking T suppression drugs. The lower level for males is generally considered to be 20, but I think some experts cite 10 as the lower level.

Based on that, 10 would be way too high of a limit.

It is interesting that when Semenya's limit was 10, he ran slower than 2:04.

Wasn't Slaney's peak around 6?

I don't know, but if so, maybe the limit should be 7 but that's just conjecture at this point. Seeing the data points for typical women vs men, and the range of differentiation between would help to set a limit for women in between, and certainly this needs to be done.

theres another one,olesya povh of ukraine.she looks male to female transgender.

Their right to identify as women trumps Melissa 's right to a gold medal.

What is disturbing is that people like you make decisions about things they know nothing about. When a yale genetics professor says she is a woman with birth defects, she is a woman with birth defects. You obviously don't know about Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, and that you know nothing about Semenyas true testosterone. People who say she should run as a man care less about womens sports that they do vilifying someone who is different.

Los Soles wrote:

While I'm clearly on your side, I do really appreciate the opposing view, for human rights reasons. It's not Semenya's fault, and it absolutely sucks for her to find out in the public sphere that she's not what she thought she was, and many consider her to be a freak, and she's unfairly criticized –– she's just trying to participate in something she's found she excels in.

But ultimately it's obvious that there has to be a line somewhere. Just a matter of determining where that line is.

GOD DAMNIT FOR THE LAST TIME IT ISNT A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. NOBODY IS SAYING SHE CANT RUN. ONLY THAT SHE CANT HAVE BALLS AND STILL

RUN AGAINST WOMEN.

This

uhhhh wrote:

GOD DAMNIT FOR THE LAST TIME IT ISNT A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. NOBODY IS SAYING SHE CANT RUN. ONLY THAT SHE CANT HAVE BALLS AND STILL

RUN AGAINST WOMEN.

800 coach 21 wrote:

exthrower wrote:

Liberals/progressive's will defend Semenya to the hilt....

I'm liberal and I don't support XXY running with women!

Exactly, same here.

I do defend her as a person, though. Animosity should be directed towards CAS and IAAF, not Semenya. Semenya grew up thinking she was no different than other women. She is a woman. She just happens to not be biologically female, so she shouldn't be allowed to compete with Women.

As long as she is allowed to, why should she be held accountable, when she doesn't set the rules?

No benefit? wrote:

You don't believe there is any lasting benefit for taking steroids for 18 years and especially during growth and development?

I haven't heard this mentioned before but it makes a lot of sense. Surely your hormonal profile during your adolescent growth spurt should matter even if your hormones are changed later. Seems like someone who goes through a male type puberty should always have an advantage over someone who didn't even if their their testosterone is reduced later in life.

angry willy wrote:

This

uhhhh wrote:

GOD DAMNIT FOR THE LAST TIME IT ISNT A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. NOBODY IS SAYING SHE CANT RUN. ONLY THAT SHE CANT HAVE BALLS AND STILL

RUN AGAINST WOMEN.

sdfsdfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

800 coach 21 wrote:

I'm liberal and I don't support XXY running with women!

Exactly, same here.

I do defend her as a person, though. Animosity should be directed towards CAS and IAAF, not Semenya. Semenya grew up thinking she was no different than other women. She is a woman. She just happens to not be biologically female, so she shouldn't be allowed to compete with Women.

As long as she is allowed to, why should she be held accountable, when she doesn't set the rules?

Lets say that your father is a billionaire tycoon who invests in a pair of shoes that will cut your track time by 10-12%. Due to the fear of backlash (your father is a sponsor) the IOC rules that the shoes are within the rules. These shoes instantly transform you from a decent sub-elite to the prohibitive gold medal favorite and none of the other athletes will be afforded the opportunity to use them.

Would you race in them and, if so, should you be held accountable in the court of public opinion?

I would certainly hold you accountable, just as I hold Caster. She (and I use that term loosely) knows that she has an advantage and could easily take a drug that would lower her testosterone levels below 10 mmol/L, which is still much higher than her competitors. She chooses not to because it will end her ability to win major prize money and endorsements, which, in my opinion, she is stealing from the women she is racing.

The CAS, IAAF and IOC are utterly pathetic but Caster is to blame as well. Just because she won't be held accountable by the governing bodies doesn't mean that she shouldn't be held accountable by us.

sdfsdfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

800 coach 21 wrote:

I'm liberal and I don't support XXY running with women!

Exactly, same here.

I do defend her as a person, though. Animosity should be directed towards CAS and IAAF, not Semenya. Semenya grew up thinking she was no different than other women. She is a woman. She just happens to not be biologically female, so she shouldn't be allowed to compete with Women.

As long as she is allowed to, why should she be held accountable, when she doesn't set the rules?

That's rubbish too though.

I remember reading an article with an interview with one of her school teachers who stated, in all innocence as this was before the furore kicked off properly, that Caster always dressed like a boy, played with the boys and it was many years before she realised that Caster was actually 'female'. This doesn't strike me as behaviour of someone who identified as female.

The teacher wasn't being critical or trying to cause a stir, she was just talking fondly of a former pupil, who she seemed very proud of.

the only way to beat this is for a group of men's rights proponents to start a movement to get as many transgenders in womens sports in order to show that men are better than females. To rub it in. To completely try to demolish women's sports DELIBERATELY.

The feminists will revolt and it will go right back to the traditional way

I don’t known about Caster Semenya, but you Americans seem to have got your knickers in a twist over your own transgender nonsense as well.

Looks as if your most urgent problem in the US right now is not the debt, immigration or the election, but whether you should force everyone to pretend that men who pretend they’re women are actually women!

School will be cut off funding if they don’t comply with this piece of gobbledygook?

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201605-title-ix-transgender.pdf

And your Department of Housing and Urban Development  is pushing regulations that would force federally funded homeless shelters to allow sexually confused men and other random male perverts to stay in all-women’s homeless shelters merely by claiming that their “gender identity” does not align with the “gender they were assigned at birth.”?

Where did all these transgenders who apparently have such an influence over your lawmakers suddenly come from?