PROF ROSS TUCKER ("Sports Scientist") tweets his DOPING SCALE (ZA): Wayde van Niekerk 5, Farah 9.5, RUPP 10

Why does it end at 3?

Since when does altitude training in Arizona make someone a doper?

Albuquerque and The Eddie period.

Yeah, I think the OP meant Albuquerque, not Arizona (probably had PR mixed up with wejo in Flagstaff).

Not sure that "Altitude" is a total +1, though it can be a coverstory for doping (all the high-altitude training camps are for better-or-worse teeming with elite athletes also into PED use).

But there's clearly enough in the PR file to hit +10, especially with the political UK situation ripe for coverups of anything naughty being exposed.

Move the golalposts wrote:

At the beginning, he seemed to imply that (10 is "most suspicious"), but then when his Twitter "students" pressed him on what the numbers meant, he "clarified" that 3 meant 30%, the scale was linear, etc.

So basically Tucker started talking out of his ass with made-up numbers, and they Syed starting calling this BS, and RT had to shoe-horn a "scientific" scale to make sense of it all, and by the end the numbers are more meaningless than originally?

Is that about right?

Dragon Runner wrote:

rojo wrote:

The argument seems to be "But Farah is a late developer."

No, that's only one part of a list of arguments, as outlined on a previous page.

In addition to the missed doorbell, connections to Aden, months in remote locations, he has actually had a training partner busted for EPO (then denied even knowing Hamza despite photographic evidence to the contrary).

I think Full is probably dirty, but I think Tucker has it backwards. Rupp is a more like a 9 and Farah is a 10.

1) You do realize that his two missed test in 2010 and 2011? One before Salazar and one after Salazar. Since then, he's been tested more times than any other British athletes. They were his two and only missed test in his career. Both were valid reasons and were not classed as avoided. If his reason wasn't valid, it would have been classed as avoided by the UK anti doping agency and he would have been banned. They banned a major English soccer star called Rio Ferdinand for avoiding a test back in 2004 and banned him for 8 months because his reason wasn't valid.

2) Months in remote location? He trains with UK Athletics and other British Athletes such Michael Rimmer and Charlie Grice, headed by Barry Fudge and Neil Black. There's photograph of Farah with them in Kenya and Ethiopia while training. So why lie? Your post implies he goes off by himself, when that simply is not the case. UK Athletics has a base in both countries for their endurance athletes to train, as well as another one in Europe.

3) The BBC did their documentary on NOP and after nearly a year of investigation, the only allegations they had was against Salazar and Rupp. Farah faced zero accusations. None. Zilch. And he was the star man and the most successful athlete.

Ridiculous.

I could say that Centrowitz is a 9 because of NOP connection. Or I could say he is a 2 because we know he comes from good genes. But then I could start making things up about his dad and get him back up to a 9.

I could say that any Ethiopian is a 9 because of poor testing. Or I could say that any Ethiopian is a 2 because of a history of great performances in the country.

Anyone can just make this up?

Also on the lack of testing in Ethiopia and Kenya, that doesn't mean everyone dopes, it means we have less certainty they don't. In a high school math class where the teacher isn't paying attention and anyone could cheat, that doesn't mean everyone does. And probably the smart kids don't because they don't need to and the less smart kids do . . .

We should make up a plagiarism suspicion scale and make Tucker a 9 (or make him a 2).

Excellent post. Thank you.

on the idiot scale.

bobgob wrote:

The BBC did their documentary on NOP and after nearly a year of investigation, the only allegations they had was against Salazar and Rupp. Farah faced zero accusations. None. Zilch. And he was the star man and the most successful athlete.

That's like wolves investigating which wolves robbed the chickens.

The BBC is British wrote:

bobgob wrote:

The BBC did their documentary on NOP and after nearly a year of investigation, the only allegations they had was against Salazar and Rupp. Farah faced zero accusations. None. Zilch. And he was the star man and the most successful athlete.

That's like wolves investigating which wolves robbed the chickens.

Lack of evidence is evidence of a cover up. That's just how it works these days.

He trained with doped and banned athletes as well. Should we post photos?

Do you work for Paragon?

fred wrote:

bobgob wrote:

2) Months in remote location? He trains with UK Athletics and other British Athletes such Michael Rimmer and Charlie Grice, headed by Barry Fudge and Neil Black. There's photograph of Farah with them in Kenya and Ethiopia while training. So why lie? Your post implies he goes off by himself, when that simply is not the case. UK Athletics has a base in both countries for their endurance athletes to train, as well as another one in Europe.

.

He trained with doped and banned athletes as well. Should we post photos?

Do you work for Paragon?

The BBC is British wrote:

bobgob wrote:

The BBC did their documentary on NOP and after nearly a year of investigation, the only allegations they had was against Salazar and Rupp. Farah faced zero accusations. None. Zilch. And he was the star man and the most successful athlete.

That's like wolves investigating which wolves robbed the chickens.

Except it's not.

You do realize that the investigation was done by a BBC Journalist and an American Journalist called David Epstein? David Epstein and ProPublica did a written piece, while the BBC did the documentary piece.

Was Epstein also covering up?

Just think how stupid you sound.

fred wrote:

He trained with doped and banned athletes as well. Should we post photos?

Do you work for Paragon?

Go ahead, give me a list. The one I recall was an unknown Arab long distance runner who was supposed to be banned and wasn't allowed to train. And correct me if I'm wrong, Farah posted the photo himself online and only took it down when he realized and was informed who that person was. If you had something to hide, why would allow photographic evidence to be taken? And take it yourself and posted online? What your effectively doing is what I call guilt by association.

Yohan Blake failed a test many years ago. He trains with Bolt. Does that mean Bolt is doping? It's absurd.

And you've completely ignored my point. Farah doesn't go off by himself to remote locations. That's just a flat out lie. That was the issue I was addressing. He goes to three bases, on in Europe, one in Kenya and one in Ethiopia. Barry Fudge and Neil Black take most of the UK endurance runners there to train during the early seasons and Farah is part of that.

Since the turn of the year, Farah been training with British Athletes such as Charlie Grice & Michale Rimmer and has spent less time with NOP. This was said by a journalist on BBC Radio before Farah's race last week and she said Salazar has kept his distance until the investigation is over, while Barry Fudge has conducted the training sessions. Hence why you don't see pictures of Rupp and Farah.

JóźwikLover wrote:

Why does it end at 3?

I think the scale ends at zero, but Ross thinks that there is at least a 30% chance that anyone of note is doping. I gather from this thread that more than that admit to doping in anonymous surveys. If true, it's safe to say that more than the number who admit it actually do it. If that's his rationale for giving everyone a score of at least a 3, I don't have a problem with it. He's making a point, not a mathematical proof. Nothing prevents you from giving your favorite American a 1 or a 0.

Regarding the question of how Mo could possibly score 5% better than Rupp -- it seems many of you miss the larger point that Tucker considers them both almost certainly dirty. I agree. Paula's 7? That's a damning judgment, too. I have no problem with that score. I'd probably give her a 9, but I'm not a sports scientist.

That was the other guy that said remote places.

Do you work for Paragon, UK Athletics or do PR for Mo?

You didn't respond to the statement by Jama's daughter that Mo trains with Jama. Any good spin for that one?

Yohan Blake failed a test many years ago. He trains with Bolt. Does that mean Bolt is doping? It's absurd.

No, but it probably would cause an increment for Bolt on the Ross Tucker â„  "Sports Scientist" Suspicion Scale.

Ross Tucker is to sports science what John Stossel is to journalism.

Rojo, it sounds like your boy Ross has officially jumped the shark.

Everything you said is true. Yes, anyone can just make it up.

You do a great example of the tough analysis of different factors. Man, you're right, there are so many factors to balance out! It's hard. What a good exercise in evaluting the sport!

I'm not sure why he is getting so much criticism for having a "suspicion list". I'm also not sure why he is being critized for being subjective.

Like you say, that's the whole point; it takes a subjective analysis to sift through all the positive and negative histories of an athlete.