Why did Steve Ovett decline so quickly?

Beeeno Cookie wrote:Hilarious analysis

no

laughable is remainder :

Despite all that I'd still argue that his 1:44.09 was worth 1:44.09

woud you offer 1'40.91WR same if 1-off with full rest for it

=

zurich ???

1'40.91 had a 1'44+ in legs from prelim

that 1'44+ not slow-down a 1-off zurich ???

that 1'40.91 have been slower if a pacer perfectly drafting to bell ???

that 1'40.91 been slower if not deciding to run 23.4 !!!, but more 23.7 or 23.9 or 24.1 or 24.4 ???

learn something very important about 800

go look at vids of the winner's 200 split in the fastest ever 800s

it will involve estimating, but go fetch the 200 times of winner in fastest 800s...

mark b wrote:

No evidence whatsoever that Ovett smoked. I have never heard this before and was quite close to some of his contemporaries in the late 1970s.

Yes there is, I read it on another forum so it must be true:

"With all the exercise top pro sportsmen do smoking shouldnt effect them that much Steve Ovett smoked more than 40 a day when he was running"

someone freeze-frame the vid or otherwise estimate the 200 split for Big-Man ( not the pacer but Big-Man ) in his

- 1'40.91WR

- 1'41.01WR

- 1'41.09WR

if all within 0.1s/0.2s, then start of 800 means nothing...

impress me...

Beevie wrote:

Don't listen to that garbage. Lung cancer? Anti-social basement dweller?

The truth is Ovett was older than he claimed. When he was 20 he discovered his gift for running but feared he was too late, that he would not get development training funds if he was too old. So, with the help of his mom he and his younger brother switched identities. It worked out both ways as his younger brother left school, which he hated, and joined the Royal Air Force. So when "Steve" was declining, he was actually in his late 30s. And his real name is Reg.

"Alright Seb?"

"Hey Reg 'ows it goin"

"Yeh, not so bad, ya tosser"

"Sorry, what was that?"

"I said, I just bought a new toaster"

Combination of things. As mentioned, one was the fall on the railings, from which he never really totally recovered in terms of his kick.

The second one was that after the events leading into the Los Angeles Olympics and his problems there, he had a cardio situation that prevented him from doing the really intense speed-work for shorter distances, hence the move up to 5000m.

This was somewhat successful, in that he ran a pretty good one in Ireland to beat Mark Nenow, then won the Commonwealth Games. In the Europeans the same year as the Commonwealth, he suffered in the heat and dropped out.

After that he went back to the 1500m but with the combination of the cardio damage from Los Angeles and the damage to the leg, was declining faster than age alone would have caused one to expect. One would have to think that Los Angeles left a mental scar too, making it very hard to reach as deep as he once might have.

I was at Crystal Palace the night of the two mile with Ovett v Rono. It was hardly a jog-fest - more a fartlek.

They dropped Malinowski, Coghlan, Nick Rose, Mike McLeod with two to go, so jog-fest is a bit extreme.

I find it hard to believe that one fall destroyed his kick. This sounds like an urban legend.

Jzargo wrote:

I find it hard to believe that one fall destroyed his kick. This sounds like an urban legend.

He didn't just fall, he actually impaled his leg on railings.

So what do your calculations say about Ovett's potential best time for 5000m in 1986?

Good book.

"Ovett: An Autobiography" by John Rodda, my copy came from the UK, and I believe the railing injury really debilitated Ovett perhaps extending to his later career. Consider his record prior 1984...running may have become laborious

still one of the greats.

Ovett's main aim for 1986 was theEuropean 5K. The Commonwealth 5K was aweak affair after all the African countries boycotted the Games. However, between the two championships he contracted a chest infection (or some form of virus) and was far from his best at the Euros. Some further details;

1) The leg injury he suffered in late 1981 was very serious. Ovett himself says that his kick was never the same, he had lost some of his natural explosiveness.

2) Both Ovett and his coach Harry Wilson say that he was in the best shape of his life training in San Diego prior to LA in 1984 but that his health went downhill the moment he arrived in LA. He made two Olympic finals when seriously ill - says something about his form in 1984 and his natural ability!

3) Wilson also says that Ovett was in shape to run very close to 13 minutes in 1986/7 but never fancied racing the distance 4-5 times a year.

4) Clearly, Ovett was never the same after 1984. What is worth speculating on is what the outcome would have been if Ovett had moved up to 5K earlier, say 1982 after his accident reduced his ability to race 1500. Could he have been the first man under 13 minutes?

5) Any other Olympic 800 champion run sub 13:20 for 5K? Or even close?

Ovett had a longer career than most athletes of his era and even compared to athletes today he had a long career. He won a silver in the European champs 800m in 1974 and a gold in the Commonwealth games 5000m in 1986 with a bunch of other gold medals from major champs and world records in between. Perhaps a more interesting question to ask would be: who else has such a long career at the top? - Walker? Lagat? - any others?

People also forget that post 1986 Ovett finished 4th in the 1988 Olympic trials for 1500m just missing out on selection (in comparison Coe was knocked out in the qualifying heats of those national champs) having had only a short build up in preparation. In late1990 he was in good form over cross country finishing not far behind Peter Elliott in an international race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMIshYGgoqs

Note that Peter Elliott was the best middle distance runner in the world in 1990.

SO was a doper.

nops.., wrote:

Discuss has two Ss. wrote:

It was totally lung cancer.

There is noting to discus.

O deer me.

Didn't Ovett run the 1500 WR AFTER the leg accident? Why are some of you saying that accident robbed him of his kick / power?

It was a bad accident, but it was repaired very well.

In '84 he was in the shape of his life but couldn't prove it.

In '85 he decided to have fun.

In '86 and '87 came the 5000m experiment, but also some more bad luck with illness.

Anyway, I think he was at the top for about 10 years.

I see. And do you always resort to childish name calling when someone tries to engage you in a discussion? When you get wound up like that it does terrible things to your spelling and grammar, too. Such a shame, since you know a thing or two about running. If you can't handle a discussion without tossing around petulant insults maybe don't bother contributing.

wintruth wrote:

'Destroyed' is an accurate term - he won the race in about 40 meters and could then afford to jog and wave down the home straight. Yea, sure a few weeks later Buckner and Hutchins had improved so much that Ovett would be nowhere near there 13:10 medal times.

Why not keep the discussion to actual runners who were racing in 1986 and not some non-existant putative non-african runners capable of beating Ovett, Buckner and Ovett if only they were alive and racing in 1986?

Jesus you're thick.

DearHunter wrote:

nops.., wrote:

There is noting to discus.

O deer me.

Perhaps you would like to talk about discuss and other throwing events.

Ovett became world class by 1976.

So world class from 1976 thru 1986 = world class performer for 11 years = longer than most.

The T&FN rankings are merit ranking and do not represent the order they believe the athletes would finish in a race.

If Ovett wasn't in the top 10 merit ranking list, it is purely because he just didn't run enough 5ks in 1986!

He was clearly better than both Buckner and Hutchings in 86, and had he not been ill at the Europeans, would probably have won that race and been ranked above Buckner. Hutchings and Buckner ran a lot more 5000s in 86 and that is the only reason why they were ranked above Ovett, who was clearly capable of sub 13:10 in 86.

Had he trained for the 5000m earlier in his career, as he was past his best by 86, I believe he could have approached 13:00.