excellent POINT
D2 Inch wrote:
Webb's prs are from races he WON. Centro's 1500 pr is a back of the pack pr and he was beaten by a 5k/10k runner during that race.
Webb is the fastest miler in the 2000s!
excellent POINT
D2 Inch wrote:
Webb's prs are from races he WON. Centro's 1500 pr is a back of the pack pr and he was beaten by a 5k/10k runner during that race.
Webb is the fastest miler in the 2000s!
Webb better leg speed, faster acceleration, much better range, more inspirational, more exciting to watch in a race. When he was on and into it, there was no one else more electrifying. So fortunate to watch him in two of the most electrifying races of his career- Bowerman 2004 mile (fastest American on our soil at the time) and Stanford vs. Ritz in his incredible 10k debut. A huge influence and factor in American running history, coinciding with the rise of the internet- letsrun, Dyestat- he will always be the most important middle distance figure of that era.
Centro the much more consistent runner, smarter and more accomplished RACER in championship events. Equal 1500/mile strength to Webb, slower flat out leg speed but much better efficiency, form and mentality. He is a rock. Has and will have a much more distinguished career in the sport.
Right now I would say they are about the same, maybe an edge to Centrowitz due to his two WC medals. Centro has actualized more of his potential, especially, obviously, in championship races. Webb was a head case (so I was I as a runner - no judgment, it is what it is) and Centrowitz is an amazing tactician. Their strengths are opposite. Webb set the HS mile record (indoors and outdoors), set the outdoor mile record, ran faster times over a variety of distances, and when he was at his best completely dominated the rest of America. Even though, unfortunately, it never came together for Webb at the WCs or OGs, I guarantee you the other competitors respected that if Webb did put it together he could have easily medalled and possibly won a major outdoor title. And the same is essentially true for Centrowitz, which is why I would say they are about the same right now.
Just because Centrowitz medaled twice and Webb didn't doesn't mean he is automatically more accomplished than Webb, but the two WC medals might put him over the edge. Webb still has the records, though, and was really the guy who was breaking the barriers, paving the way for people like Centro. If Centrowitz wins another WC/OG medal and breaks 3:30, he will certainly have surpassed him in every category except that of trailblazer.
Intergalactic wrote:
And the same is essentially true for Centrowitz, which is why I would say they are about the same right now.
I agree with everything except this. Centrowitz can't beat the best in the world.
Honestly, I haven't followed Centrowitz's career nearly as closely as I followed Webb's (I didn't follow running too closely for a few years but began obsessively reading the boards during the trials and am now obsessively posting again as of a couple of days ago), but it seems Centrowitz is a very legitimate world class contender right now not dissimilar to Webb's status in his prime. I think we would both agree that Webb probably had more potential and was probably faster on his best day but Centrowitz has shown a much greater ability to turn his talent, which is also outstanding in its own right, into results. It remains to be seen in my opinion if the results he gets put his career definitively ahead of Webb's.
I highly doubt he will beat Kiprop, but I feel like anything less than a medal for him at the Olympics would be a disappointment, as was the case for Webb. But Centrowitz has done it already.
And to elaborate further, I was a bigger fan of Webb's but I have to tip my hat to Centrowitz for his global medals, with hopefully more to come.
i've spoken with alan webb multiple times since meeting him at footlocker (we're the same class) and centrowitz once. i've also been around centro a few times because i know his sister.webb is a genuinely nice guy and, like others have said, a student of track and field. centro is a different generation and a bit more vainyou owe me an apology, mr "jump to conclusions"also, you're a d*ck
karmaking wrote:
of course he did wrote:webb is a much better/gracious athlete and person, but centrowitz has had, by far, the better career. there's no argument.
And you have come to his conclusion based on what you have seen of these people on TV? If you (and anyone else) like Alan Webb for whatever reason, good for you, but that does not make him a better person than Centro or anybody else for that matter. Unless you know them both personally, I don't see how you're able to make that sort of judgment. That would be like me saying you're the worst kind of idiot just because you made one idiotic post on letsrun.
Webb = Time Trialer
Centro = Master Racer/Tactician
Centro has already been much more competitive internationally, which is all that it really comes down to. Did Webb ever even make an Olympic/WC final???
There is no doubt in my mind that Centro will run 3:28/29 and get the AR at some point in the future.
In addition, someone mentioned Webb has much better range than Centro, but I would strongly disagree. I bet Centro will run sub 13 down the road when he begins to move up in distance. At this stage Webb has an 0.8 advantage at 800, and the 27:34 is impressive but Centro will most likely never train for 10k so we'll never know. He may never touch his mile record simply because nobody runs a mile anymore..
i think you're like Prefontaine, and I'm like Bowerman.I'm not sure what your definition of surpassed is? I think Mo Farah is better than Daniel Komen, who was basically the most talented/doped (you decide) runner of all time. Have the guys with faster PB's than Mo Farah "surpassed him? Despite the fact that he has 8 olympic and world championship gold medals? if you think yes, then i will never agree with you.to me, the only important thing is winning medals/championships as a career. and I AGREE that Webb at his best was better than Centro, but he just couldn't put it all together to be as consistent and win as many medals as Centrowitz. And in that case, I don't care if Webb would have run a 3:40 mile in that time trial race in Belgium. He never won anything major. He never even made it to the finals of the Olympics.Sihine won a lot of important medals. So did Tergat. Apples to Oranges plus they ran really fast times. Do I think they are better than Mo Farah? Not at winning. But they sure were awesome at racing fast. You're basically saying that because the Golden State Warriors won 73 regular season games but lost the championship, they had a better year than the Cavaliers?it's about winning @jewbacca. nothing else matters. in fact, it's more impressive to win an olympic gold with slow PB times than fast ones, in my opinion......i know that's not as flashy and a less romantic story, but who the eff cares, medals matter. And Centro has more than Webb
jewbacca wrote:
of course he did wrote:if you can't see that his career has been better, you're blind or just do not think winning medals/titles is important. it is way more important than times, btw.
The question was whether Centro surpassed Webb, not who has had the better career. Surpassed is a vague term, but it implies an all-around look at the athlete, not just championship records.
And I disagree with your statement in that a weak field will lend to easier medals, and so times have to be weighed as do wins against quality fields (ala Diamond League).
Consider that Mo Farah can win double gold in 2016 & 2020 and yet will never have surpassed Bekele. And many would argue that Sileshi Sihine and Tergat were better than Mo.
Webb's superior times have to be considered. Also his Diamond League win and the fact he was a threat to win every time he stepped on the track must be considered.
Centro is a solid bronze medal threat every time he steps on the track. He has peaked and will never win against a quality field. Also compare the 1500m field in 2013 to what Webb was racing against. Apples and oranges.
Webb at his best was better than Centro, but Centro has had a better championship career. In the end, Centro has not surpassed Webb until he has wins against quality fields.
I hate, hate, HATE how people go on and on about Webb's mile record. It's only worth 3:30, and frankly, in the year 2016 no real track fan should care about the mile. It's like have the 1000m record, or maybe the 600m. Webb was great, but people do his legacy a disservice by trying to pretend he was greater than he actually was. I'm sure that Webb himself would tell you that Centro has accomplished more than he did.
No more miles wrote:
I hate, hate, HATE how people go on and on about Webb's mile record. It's only worth 3:30, and frankly, in the year 2016 no real track fan should care about the mile. It's like have the 1000m record, or maybe the 600m. Webb was great, but people do his legacy a disservice by trying to pretend he was greater than he actually was. I'm sure that Webb himself would tell you that Centro has accomplished more than he did.
Webb probably doesn't even know who Centro is. He doesn't follow b leaguers.
D2 Inch wrote:
Webb is the fastest miler in the 2000s!
Hicham El Guerrouj 3:44.95 Roma (Stadio Olimpico) 29 JUN 2001
of course he did wrote:
i've spoken with alan webb multiple times since meeting him at footlocker (we're the same class) and centrowitz once. i've also been around centro a few times because i know his sister.
webb is a genuinely nice guy and, like others have said, a student of track and field. centro is a different generation and a bit more vain
you owe me an apology, mr "jump to conclusions"
also, you're a d*ck
karmaking wrote:And you have come to his conclusion based on what you have seen of these people on TV? If you (and anyone else) like Alan Webb for whatever reason, good for you, but that does not make him a better person than Centro or anybody else for that matter. Unless you know them both personally, I don't see how you're able to make that sort of judgment. That would be like me saying you're the worst kind of idiot just because you made one idiotic post on letsrun.
I wouldn't call Centro vain, as much as a character. And he's a character because he's a happy person who likes to have fun.
His dance moves on the awards stage Sunday, were legit!! --And he was dancing in front of his mom and a ton of relatives, goofing around. Takes juevos!
Tons of fans have shown me their photos with Centro and described how cool and fun, encouraging and optimistic he is. He's enjoying his life and is very cool with fans. One of those fans is my girlfriend's son, who raved about how engaging and fun Centro was with other runners, regardless of if they are pros, great college runners, or hobby joggers. He knows this is a neglected sport, not popular like his own faves, NFL/NBA, he's got things in proper perspective and is having a good life.
Oh, and I'm a huge Webb fan, saw him break the HS record, and win the 2004 trials, have talked to him many times, he is gracious and a gentleman. They're both quality people. And my answer is "no," lol, Centro won't surpass Webb until he gets the mile record!
By virtue of the WC medals, Centrowitz has clearly had the better career. But: If you lined them both up 1 on 1, in their primes, (which, for Centrowitz, might be right now) Webb wins 9 out of 10 times. So, I guess it depends on what you mean by "SURPASSED"
i don't think anyone will run 3:46 for a long time
A real fine example wrote:
of course he did wrote:i've spoken with alan webb multiple times since meeting him at footlocker (we're the same class) and centrowitz once. i've also been around centro a few times because i know his sister.
webb is a genuinely nice guy and, like others have said, a student of track and field. centro is a different generation and a bit more vain
you owe me an apology, mr "jump to conclusions"
also, you're a d*ck
I wouldn't call Centro vain, as much as a character. And he's a character because he's a happy person who likes to have fun.
His dance moves on the awards stage Sunday, were legit!! --And he was dancing in front of his mom and a ton of relatives, goofing around. Takes juevos!
Tons of fans have shown me their photos with Centro and described how cool and fun, encouraging and optimistic he is. He's enjoying his life and is very cool with fans. One of those fans is my girlfriend's son, who raved about how engaging and fun Centro was with other runners, regardless of if they are pros, great college runners, or hobby joggers. He knows this is a neglected sport, not popular like his own faves, NFL/NBA, he's got things in proper perspective and is having a good life.
Oh, and I'm a huge Webb fan, saw him break the HS record, and win the 2004 trials, have talked to him many times, he is gracious and a gentleman. They're both quality people. And my answer is "no," lol, Centro won't surpass Webb until he gets the mile record!
Uhhhhhhhh wrote:
Centro has already been much more competitive internationally, which is all that it really comes down to. Did Webb ever even make a WC final???
Yes. Twice.
Uhhhhhhhh wrote:
There is no doubt in my mind that Centro will run 3:28/29 and get the AR at some point in the future.
Maybe. But if he does, it will probably be in a race that someone else wins, as opposed to how Webb set his PRs, by winning.
Uhhhhhhhh wrote:
In addition, someone mentioned Webb has much better range than Centro, but I would strongly disagree. I bet Centro will run sub 13 down the road when he begins to move up in distance. At this stage Webb has an 0.8 advantage at 800, and the 27:34 is impressive but Centro will most likely never train for 10k so we'll never know.
You strongly disagree Webb has better range based on something that Centrowitz has never done?
Webb didn't train for the 10k either, but he still ran 27:34.
By the way, Webb also made the 12k world cross country championship team.
What makes track a sport is that there are races--not just time trials. If times were all that matter, then there would be no point in pitting people head to head in World Championship/Olympic races. Yes, fast times are important when you're judging the legacy of one runner over another--but if you can't translate those times into good races, what good are they?
That sounds harsher than I mean it, too. I'm a big Webb fan, and as some are saying--my God, his range was incredible. He was a true freak of nature in his talent, and while Centro is one talented guy, Webb was just on another level with his 1:43/3:46/27:30.
But all that having been said, I don't see how you can give the nod to Webb over a guy who has a WC bronze, a WC silver, an Olympic 4th, a World Indoors gold, 2 DL 2nd place finishes, and who has made the final of every championship race he's been in. Yes, Webb is faster--but by a hair when it comes to the 1500m. You mean to tell me you would take those extra tenths of a second over the medal haul that Centrowitz has already accomplished? Or that those few tenths make Webb's career immeasurably better than Centro's?
If Centro gets the AR some day, then his career will indisputably have exceeded Webb's. But in truth it already has.
embarrassing you wrote:
Webb was facing much better competition, and those guys were most likely doping too.
Centro is racing against much weaker opponents.
Asbel Kiprop?
Discus. wrote:
Has Centro SURPASSED Webb???????
It depends on how you phrase the question.
If you ask, "Has Centro SURPASSED Webb?" then the answer is clearly "Yes!"
But if you ask, "Has Centro SURPASSED Webb???????" then the answer is much more open to individual perspectives.
yes
D2 Inch wrote:
Webb's prs are from races he WON. Centro's 1500 pr is a back of the pack pr and he was beaten by a 5k/10k runner during that race.
Webb is the fastest miler in the 2000s!
I would not say his mile pr was a race he "won" considering it was set up with pacers for the sole purpose of getting the AR.